9/11/2001-Are we safer now?

[3D23]

I was asked this in a Gallup Poll yesterday, amd was wondering what everyone else's feelings were.

My feeling is, we really aren't. You can put up all the smoke and mirrors you want, but if Israel can sustain terrorist attacks on a constant basis KNOWING there is a 99% chance of it happening, and being about 1/100th the size of the U.S.? No, we are not safer.

[StockdaleforVeep]

Safe in this nation? Yes, never had a doubt we werent

Safe abroad, has always been dangerous, now it is prob at its most critical levels.

[fquaye14ten]

are we safer against people hijacking planes and crashing them into buildings? probably

are we safer against other acts of terrorism in this country? probably not substantially.

but that's no one's fault (but the terrorists). You just can't stop something like that

[MeanFish]

are we safer against people hijacking planes and crashing them into buildings? probably

are we safer against other acts of terrorism in this country? probably not substantially.

but that's no one's fault (but the terrorists). You just can't stop something like that

I think we're about even in terms of the chances of another terrorist attack derived from a foreign source. However, I think we're in a much more dire situation when it comes to our own people and leadership.

[The Racehorse]

Is that asshole Bin Laden still around? Can Homeland Security handle a man-made disaster, let alone a natural disaster?

Too me, not much has changed. :shrug:

[CaptainBallz]

Based on the increase in the numbers of people that no longer see the US as a benevolent force in the world, I'm saying that we have made ourselves much more vulnerable as a country.

The "terrorists" motives were never to invade the US and take it over. Their motives, especially Bin Laden's, were to drag us into a costly and unwinnable military action on their home court with the hopes of radicalizing the Arab world against us... So yeah, we're idiots...

One could argue that this does equate to us being weaker as a country. I could change my vote to that, but I feel we're more vulnerable than weak at this point in time...

[Dan Mega]

Our military is a lot more stretched than it was 6 years ago. Less safe.

[fquaye14ten]

military doesn't really have a lot to do w/terrorist attacks though

[Dan Mega]

True, but they could have an effect in stopping it. :shrug:

[samram]

quaye's first post and The Racehorse's post are right. We're safer from an airplane-based attack- probably. We probably aren't any safer from terrorism overall, but that's life. Most of the solutions one hears aren't going to really make us safer- building a wall at the Mexican border won't get it done.

We also have no idea whether DHS can effectively manage recovery after a terrorist attack.

[fquaye14ten]

I had a friend who was in London after the Subway and Bus bombings last year and I asked him what it was like being IN central London after those tragedies. He was staying at a local pub so he knew a lot of locals and he said it was NOTHING like the US after 9/11

I guess because terrorism is just a fact of life there, they accept it as a matter of course........it's terrible to them, but they know they can't prevent it.

I mean, what's going to stop someone from getting on the L with a bomb in their backpack and causing a whole lot of damage? nothing....what are they going to do, say "No backpacks on the L"?

[CaptainBallz]

I had a friend who was in London after the Subway and Bus bombings last year and I asked him what it was like being IN central London after those tragedies. He was staying at a local pub so he knew a lot of locals and he said it was NOTHING like the US after 9/11

I guess because terrorism is just a fact of life there, they accept it as a matter of course........it's terrible to them, but they know they can't prevent it.

I mean, what's going to stop someone from getting on the L with a bomb in their backpack and causing a whole lot of damage? nothing....what are they going to do, say "No backpacks on the L"?

With all due respect, 9/11 was a bit more devastating than the subway bombings. Tragedies, yes, but the spectacle that was 9/11 was a bit more overwhelming.

[fquaye14ten]

yeah you're absolutely right. although my friend lived in a pub about 2 blocks from the tube stop that was bombed.

we used to take that line to school all the time when we went there the semester before the bombings

of course it's not equitable, i was just trying to point out how resigned they are to terrorism there because they know there's nothing they can do but be as vigilant as possible

[fquaye14ten]

not balls and sticks?

[3D23]

9/11 threads should go in PATC.

Ummm, this is in PAC.


:shrug:

[3D23]

I moved it. Or at least I moved a couple of them.

Well, I put this one in PAC because I knew it would get political, but the other one I started about "where were you" I put in the locker room cuz I thought it was more of a generic, remembrance thing.

No biggie.

[CaptainBallz]

WONG RULz!!

I <3 P0stz!!

[SABRSox]

We may be safer from "terrorists," but we are much, much more threatened and vulnerable to our own government now, and that far outweighs the threat posed by the terrorists.

[getonbckthr]

I say we are the same the only difference terrorism is known to the American public.

[maurice]

Things that make us safer:
- Flight crews and passengers never again will allow anybody to seize control of a plane
- Attacking Afghanistan disrupted AQ's existing organizational structure

Things that make us less safe:
- Pretty much everything else the administration has done and failed to do since 9/11
- AQ has reconstituted and is at least as strong as they were on 9/11

I voted "same," because the threat that any individual American will be killed in a terrorist attack was very low before 9/11 and is very low now.

[StockdaleforVeep]

Is that asshole Bin Laden still around? Can Homeland Security handle a man-made disaster, let alone a natural disaster?

Too me, not much has changed. :shrug:

The govt claims they have stopped several attacks thanks to increased security, choose to believe or not

[SABRSox]

Like those guys that were going to (allegedly) blow up the Sears Tower?

:jagoff:

[maurice]

The govt claims they have stopped several attacks thanks to increased security, choose to believe or not

I choose "not" for at least 7 reasons:
- They have an obvious motive to lie
- They have been caught lying on multiple occasions
- They've tried to cover up their lying with ridiculous privilege and confidentiality claims, and by smearing whistle-blowers
- They have an incentive to undermine their lying reputation by producing credible evidence but have entirely failed to do so
- As a result, whenever they were required to prove their initial allegations, they failed miserably
- Many of the steps they've taken "to stop terrorist attacks" are absolutely ridiculous (see almost everything the TSA has ever done)
- Many obvious steps to increase security were completely ignored (see again the TSA and also the 9/11 Commission Report)

[3D23]

We may be safer from "terrorists," but we are much, much more threatened and vulnerable to our own government now, and that far outweighs the threat posed by the terrorists.

Yeah, but you're a liberal, free sex hippie...................:shrug:



Who loves ya, skrippy baby?

[SABRSox]

My mom likes me.

[3D23]

My mom likes me.


Love the sinner, hate the sin. That's my motto. :thumbsup:

[StockdaleforVeep]

Like those guys that were going to (allegedly) blow up the Sears Tower?

:jagoff:

Brooklyn bridge is still standing aint it?

I choose "not" for at least 7 reasons:
- They have an obvious motive to lie
- They have been caught lying on multiple occasions
- They've tried to cover up their lying with ridiculous privilege and confidentiality claims, and by smearing whistle-blowers
- They have an incentive to undermine their lying reputation by producing credible evidence but have entirely failed to do so
- As a result, whenever they were required to prove their initial allegations, they failed miserably
- Many of the steps they've taken "to stop terrorist attacks" are absolutely ridiculous (see almost everything the TSA has ever done)
- Many obvious steps to increase security were completely ignored (see again the TSA and also the 9/11 Commission Report)

So you walk around with the constant fear of a bomb going off in the city or a plane u fly is gonna be hijacked then

[SABRSox]

Brooklyn bridge is still standing aint it?



So you walk around with the constant fear of a bomb going off in the city or a plane u fly is gonna be hijacked then
Uh... what does that prove, exactly?

[StockdaleforVeep]

My mom likes me.

Be glad she didnt have an abortion, cuz you like, uh, wouldnt mind cuz its her right

Uh... what does that prove, exactly?

He said he doesnt believe the govt in saying they have stopped plots\attacks since 9\11. He also mentioned the lies and conspiracy and other mumbo jumbo about the issue of the govt and what it tells us. So by that, he's implying we are not safer and that the govt is not doing much to stop terrorism, so therefore he must walk in terror daily from the evil scourge that must be terrorism running unchecked in americana

and my commentary was that there is nothing to fear

[3D23]

my feeling is, you could walk out in front of a bus tomorrow, so what difference does it make? Like the DUMB FUCKS that actually went out and BOUGHT visqueen and duct tape, thinking it would protect them. Hello, you seal your house up, you die from asphyxiation, wouldn't that be a pleasant way to die?

I am not buying a gas mask, going a different way to work, being uber-paranoid because we have a crayola gay pride color scale that says we should.

If you're born to hang, you'll never drown, and I certainly would like to think the government is doing everything it can to prevent a terrorist attack from happening again, but having seen Oklahoma City AND New York City in my lifetime, I have to think it is a very real possibility it could and will happen again.

But, I will not be paralyzed in fear, and hope my government will protect me. I have a Browning with shells in the basement, and will defend my family, but other than that? Meh.

Be glad she didnt have an abortion, cuz you like, uh, wouldnt mind cuz its her right


I give up.

[SABRSox]

Be glad she didnt have an abortion, cuz you like, uh, wouldnt mind cuz its her right

If my mom had an abortion, I would gladly die to protect her right to have one.

He said he doesnt believe the govt in saying they have stopped plots\attacks since 9\11. He also mentioned the lies and conspiracy and other mumbo jumbo about the issue of the govt and what it tells us. So by that, he's implying we are not safer and that the govt is not doing much to stop terrorism, so therefore he must walk in terror daily from the evil scourge that must be terrorism running unchecked in americana

and my commentary was that there is nothing to fear


As for the "conspiracy theories," I'm sure there are a lot of people working very hard to keep this country safe, and I am grateful for that, so long as they stay within the bounds of the Constitution. When they overstep those bounds, I'd rather not have the security.

Quite honestly, that piece of paper means more to me than whether or not the Brooklyn Bridge is still standing.

[StockdaleforVeep]

my feeling is, you could walk out in front of a bus tomorrow, so what difference does it make? Like the DUMB FUCKS that actually went out and BOUGHT visqueen and duct tape, thinking it would protect them. Hello, you seal your house up, you die from asphyixiation, wouldn't that be a pleasant way to die?

I am not buying a gas mask, going a different way to work, being uber-paranoid because we have a crayola gay pride color scale that says we should.

If you're born to hang, you'll never drown, and I certainly would like to think the government is doing everything it can to prevent a terrorist attack from happening again, but having seen Oklahoma City AND New York City in my lifetime, I have to think it is a very real possibility it could and will happen again.

But, I will not be paralyzed in fear, and hope my government will protect me. I have a Browning with shells in the basement, and will defend my family, but other than that? Meh.
"The Father wove the skein of your life a long time ago. Go and hide in a hole if you wish, but you won't live one instant longer. Your fate is fixed. Fear profits a man nothing."

If my mom had an abortion, I would gladly die to protect her right to have one.




As for the "conspiracy theories," I'm sure there are a lot of people working very hard to keep this country safe, and I am grateful for that, so long as they stay within the bounds of the Constitution. When they overstep those bounds, I'd rather not have the security.

Quite honestly, that piece of paper means more to me than whether or not the Brooklyn Bridge is still standing.

So lives mean less than the Const to you?

Bush does too much, libs complain, he doesnt do enough, libs complain

Where was the outrage when clinton allowed the cole bombing or the zimbabwe bombings or the first trade centre attack or oklahoma city? No, the libs were happy cuz clinton gave the nation money and ruined the future of labor in the nation with NAFTA

[maurice]

So you walk around with the constant fear of a bomb going off in the city or a plane u fly is gonna be hijacked then

You'd already know the answer to this, if you read my 1st post in this thread. To wit:
Flight crews and passengers never again will allow anybody to seize control of a plane....
I voted "same," because the threat that any individual American will be killed in a terrorist attack was very low before 9/11 and is very low now.

People who are in constant fear that they will be killed by terrorists are very stupid, particularly if they are not in even greater constant fear of, say, automobile accidents.

People who live in small US towns who are in constant fear that they will be killed by terrorists are mentally ill.

[StockdaleforVeep]

You'd already know the answer to this, if you read my 1st post in this thread. To wit:


People who are in constant fear that they will be killed by terrorists are very stupid, particularly if they are not in even greater constant fear of, say, automobile accidents.

People who live in small US towns who are in constant fear that they will be killed by terrorists are mentally ill.


That is honestly debatable. During the coldwar, Illinois was targeted by the soviets in multiple areas due to strategic locations, one of them was the atomic power plant about 10-20 miles down the road from here. It all depends what surrounds you, but whatever happens happens, i wont be hiding in a hole

[SABRSox]

There is nothing more important to American citizens than the Constitution they live under.

NOTHING.

[maurice]

Brooklyn bridge is still standing aint it?

The Brooklyn Bridge has not been destroyed by terrorists since I put a White Sox coffee mug on my desk. Therefore, my coffee mug protects the Brooklyn Bridge from terror attacks.

That is honestly debatable. During the coldwar, Illinois was targeted by the soviets in multiple areas due to strategic locations

Sure, but the chance that the small town you live in is the one that will be targeted by Soviets, terrorists, space aliens, etc. is infinitesimal. By comparison, your chances of being killed in a car accident are incredibly high. If a person lived in constant fear of dying in a car accident, you'd think that they were nuts, yet they'd be a million times more reasonable than the small town person fearing death-by-terrorist.

:shrug:

[StockdaleforVeep]

The Brooklyn Bridge has not been destroyed by terrorists since I put a White Sox coffee mug on my desk. Therefore, my coffee mug protects the Brooklyn Bridge from terror attacks.

But my point is there was a serious attempt on it that was broken up

Placing your mug on the desk does not actively do anything to prevent it

The increased security of the nation prevented the bridge attack
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/06/20/1055828490680.html
http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/06/19/alqaeda.plea/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/06/20/wterr20.xml

[maurice]

Placing your mug on the desk does not actively do anything to prevent it
The increased security of the nation prevented the bridge attack

Not really. The proof is the same as my mug.

Your example is a guy who WANTED to blow up a bridge, but there was no "serious attempt." The government did not even allege that he had explosives, much less that he had enough explosives to blow up a giant bridge. Rather, they alleged that he "checked out the chances of destroying a New York bridge and tried to buy equipment," according to your CNN link.

In addition, there is no proof that "increased security" (as opposed to regular security) "actively did anything to prevent it." On the contrary:
After scouting the bridge and deciding its security and structure meant the plot was unlikely to succeed, he passed along a message to al Qaeda in early 2003 that said "the weather is too hot."
So my coffee mug and your additional security didn't do shit.

In fact, it appears that he actually was convicted for the following non-bridge-blowing-up acts:
In Pakistan, Faris helped procure 2,000 sleeping bags for use by al Qaeda and delivered cash and cell phones to an al Qaeda operative. In late December 2001, he bought several airline tickets to Yemen for use by al Qaeda operatives, the documents said.

[Deuce]

We are safer because we are more aware of the threat. Whether we are actually preventing the threats is uncertain, but we at least don't have that blissful pre-9/11 ignorance that left us so vulnerable.