F*ck it, I'm Throwing Downfield: The Rex Grossman Story

[MeanFish]

I tried searching for this, but I didn't find it previously posted. So, I'm posting it:

http://kissmesuzy.blogspot.com/2006/11/f-k-it-im-throwing-it-downfield.html

It's kind of old now, but absolutely hilarious. The first few lines:


Is that Berrian? I think he's triple-covered. You know what? Fuck it. I'm throwing it downfield.

Yeah, I see Jones open on the flank. But fuck that. Dumpoff passes are for faggots. I'm fucking Sexy Rexy Grossman. I can get that ball in there. And, even if I can't, I bet I'll be able to pull it off the next go round. I like throwing the ball long. It makes my dick hard.

[StockdaleforVeep]

Not as bad as horrible horvath i had to sit thru several seasons for. Either he would over throw his receivers deep by like 10 yards or he would drop the ball right into a defenders hands infront of the receiver. Fucking horrible and the lions need to sign him so i can do my best to end his career in maddo

[SFS04]

That blog makes me :laff:

http://funkatron.com/content/im-goin-deep-fan-club.jpg

[Palehose13]

That blog makes me :laff:

http://funkatron.com/content/im-goin-deep-fan-club.jpg


That is quality. I need a T-shirt or somethng with that on it.

[StockdaleforVeep]

That is quality. I need a T-shirt or somethng with that on it.

You should wear it so we dont see your nasty funbags

[Palehose13]

The only men who have't wanted to see my supple double D's were ghey. Except for the drag queens, they appreciate a good rack. So I guess that means your not drag queen. At least you have that going for you. :shrug:

[StockdaleforVeep]

The only men who have't wanted to see my supple double D's were ghey. Except for the drag queens, they appreciate a good rack. So I guess that means your not drag queen. At least you have that going for you. :shrug:

I like tits on a girl who look like a girl? :shrug:

[Palehose13]

I like tits on a girl who look like a girl? :shrug:

Short hair does not necessarily make one look manly. If it did, you wouldn't have any problems.

[StockdaleforVeep]

Short hair does not necessarily make one look manly. If it did, you wouldn't have any problems.

Eh i seen other pix too

[Spider_Pig]

Meh, Grossman jokes are getting old. :shrug:

[fquaye14ten]

i agree with everyone: rexy is sexy

[SFS04]

http://cache.deadspin.com/assets/resources/2007/02/somethingawfulsbxli.jpg

Nice legs buddy.

[cbotnyse]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AKwuBs1gmU

[fquaye14ten]

rex haters are mongoloids

[Prope]

Rex Haters could also mean Spiewak.

[dcb]

I tried searching for this, but I didn't find it previously posted. So, I'm posting it:

http://kissmesuzy.blogspot.com/2006/11/f-k-it-im-throwing-it-downfield.html

It's kind of old now, but absolutely hilarious. The first few lines:
Is that Berrian? I think he's triple-covered. You know what? Fuck it. I'm throwing it downfield.

Yeah, I see Jones open on the flank. But fuck that. Dumpoff passes are for faggots. I'm fucking Sexy Rexy Grossman. I can get that ball in there. And, even if I can't, I bet I'll be able to pull it off the next go round. I like throwing the ball long. It makes my dick hard.




Ahh, the fickle nature of sports fans. Of course if the suggested dump off pass doesn't work then the Bears offense would be labeled needlessly conservative especially when we've got speed recievers like Berrian, Ron Turner would become the new John Shoop, and demands would be made on the Bears to find a quarterback who is fearless and will take chances by throwing downfield.

Rex hate is old and tired, I think he'll do just fine this season. I'm more worried about whether or not Benson will be able to shoulder the full time load at RB.

[StockdaleforVeep]

Rex Haters could also mean Spiewak.

Jim Miller: The cream of the average

[SFS04]

You guys do realize, that post about Rex is from November 2006, right?

The KSK blog had a field day all last season roasting Rex for being a "bro".

I think men think women find him attractive, can't say I agree, he's quite possibly the only man in sports I'd describe as "twee".

[Dan Mega]

Benson is going to be better than the painfully average Thomas Jones.

[Dan Mega]

Rumor has it Benson is faster too. People are comparing him to a young Earl Campbell. Thats a good thing- Campbell would throw linemen aside with one arm then purposely put the hurt on tweeners in the secondary that would try to tackle him.

[samram]

Rumor has it Benson is faster too. People are comparing him to a young Earl Campbell. Thats a good thing- Campbell would throw linemen aside with one arm then purposely put the hurt on tweeners in the secondary that would try to tackle him.

That's not a rumor, that's a fact.

[10,000mileWhiteSox]

Rumor has it Benson is faster too. People are comparing him to a young Earl Campbell. Thats a good thing- Campbell would throw linemen aside with one arm then purposely put the hurt on tweeners in the secondary that would try to tackle him.

That's not a rumor, that's a fact.

Well in all honesty, Benson was drafted in the same spot as Walter Payton was and we all know how that turned out.
:cool:

[Spider_Pig]

Well I can bet good money he won't be another Walter Payton, but I see great things can come with him at RB. I liked Jones, but when you have two great starting backs, you go with the younger and better talent.

[MeanFish]

Ahh, the fickle nature of sports fans. Of course if the suggested dump off pass doesn't work then the Bears offense would be labeled needlessly conservative especially when we've got speed recievers like Berrian, Ron Turner would become the new John Shoop, and demands would be made on the Bears to find a quarterback who is fearless and will take chances by throwing downfield.

Rex hate is old and tired, I think he'll do just fine this season. I'm more worried about whether or not Benson will be able to shoulder the full time load at RB.

It's interesting that you mention that -- one thing I'm hoping that we incorporate this season is some quick screens like the Panthers do with Smith. This would force the corners to play up on the line, which in turn makes it easier for our wideouts to get open downfield.

The Bears offense is immensely talented, but equally raw. I think Greg Olsen is going to be the x-factor that allows them to be more consistent however. It's hard not to be accused of continually just throwing downfield when you have a bunch of speed guys and one possession guy who is in the twilight of their career.

The bears badly needed a Joe Jurevicius type guy, and I think Olsen gives them that.

[Prope]

You'll probably see Hester on some wide receiver screens as well as the 0-route. I heard Laurence Holmes say the Bears have put in a tight-end screen for Olsen :omg:

[StockdaleforVeep]

Apparently they want to make grossman a mobile qb :omg:

[Prope]

No, they want him to be able to use his feet in the pocket more. To not get himself into trouble like he did on occasion last season.

[Spider_Pig]

Grossman could be a good mobile QB, he just doesn't. He does need to move around a bit more, because it seems he just craps a good one in his pants whenever a lineman gets close.

[Prope]

^ Yeah, I guess a pretty decent knock against him might be his lack of stepping into the pocket when you have the pressure from the outside. At least not all the time.

[MeanFish]

Grossman could be a good mobile QB, he just doesn't. He does need to move around a bit more, because it seems he just craps a good one in his pants whenever a lineman gets close.

I'd like to see Grossman be more comfortable rolling out and moving around in the pocket, but I don't want him to start running the ball. He's reasonably swift footed for a QB, but he's not as fast as a good defensive end or a linebacker.

Plus, I can't help but think about '04 when he ran into the endzone, scored and promptly fell over not to be seen for a long time after that.

[Spider_Pig]

Yeah I don't expect him to be scrambling very often either, but at the least he should be more comfortable with moving around the pocket, with running being an added option.

[Prope]

I'd like to see Grossman be more comfortable rolling out and moving around in the pocket, but I don't want him to start running the ball. He's reasonably swift footed for a QB, but he's not as fast as a good defensive end or a linebacker.

Plus, I can't help but think about '04 when ran into the endzone, scored and promptly fell over not to be seen for a long time after that.
Yeah, but that was kind of a fluke.

[StockdaleforVeep]

No, they want him to be able to use his feet in the pocket more. To not get himself into trouble like he did on occasion last season.

When he did move he was terrible, i remember berrian had to bail his ass out on multiple occasions

[MeanFish]

Yeah, but that was kind of a fluke.

I know, but it's still hard to get that out of your head. :P

[StockdaleforVeep]

I know, but it's still hard to get that out of your head. :P

Just dont do it at the disco hall

[MeanFish]

Just dont do it at the disco hall

Pfft. Disco is dead.

[Spider_Pig]

http://www.jahsonic.com/DiscoSucks.jpg
The banner on that famous night says it all.

But back to Grossman, hopefully his days of not making it through the preseason are over. :(

[MeanFish]

http://www.jahsonic.com/DiscoSucks.jpg
The banner on that famous night says it all.

But back to Grossman, hopefully his days of not making it through the preseason are over. :(

I think they are, but I don't think the Bears are dead in the water if Grossman goes down.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Kyle Orton is better than people think he is right now. He's been with this team for two full seasons already, knows the offense well, and looks to be growing up.

Having said that, Grossman is definitely this team's starter and I think he's going to be great.

[Spider_Pig]

Well yeah they are in serious trouble if Grossman goes down again. As good as their defense is they can't get by without a quality QB. But I do agree Orton is better than expected of him at this point. He was pretty good for the Bears as a rookie when unexpectedly put in that starter role, so there's no telling how far he has come since.

[SoxFan76]

Poor Rex, he leads his NFL leading offense to the Super Bowl and he still gets ripped on.

Has the entire Bears fanbase turned into Sox fans?

[fquaye14ten]

Poor Rex, he leads his NFL leading offense to the Super Bowl and he still gets ripped on.

Has the entire Bears fanbase turned into Sox fans?

wouldn't that be better than cub fans b/c cub fans are so stupid?

i ask this rhetorically since i'm on ignore

nevertheless

[buehrlebabe]

Well yeah they are in serious trouble if Grossman goes down again. As good as their defense is they can't get by without a quality QB. But I do agree Orton is better than expected of him at this point. He was pretty good for the Bears as a rookie when unexpectedly put in that starter role, so there's no telling how far he has come since.

I'm an Orton fan. I heard he had a great camp:shrug:

[fquaye14ten]

i like his beard

[SoxFan76]

wouldn't that be better than cub fans b/c cub fans are so stupid?

i ask this rhetorically since i'm on ignore

nevertheless

I decided to look since I figured this was in direct response to my post.

Sox fans are tough on their players...generally
Cub fans don't really care

[Palehose13]

Meh, Grossman jokes are getting old. :shrug:

rex haters are mongoloids

Ahh, the fickle nature of sports fans. Of course if the suggested dump off pass doesn't work then the Bears offense would be labeled needlessly conservative especially when we've got speed recievers like Berrian, Ron Turner would become the new John Shoop, and demands would be made on the Bears to find a quarterback who is fearless and will take chances by throwing downfield.

Rex hate is old and tired, I think he'll do just fine this season. I'm more worried about whether or not Benson will be able to shoulder the full time load at RB.

I'd like to see Grossman be more comfortable rolling out and moving around in the pocket, but I don't want him to start running the ball. He's reasonably swift footed for a QB, but he's not as fast as a good defensive end or a linebacker.


:thumbsup: to all

[Spider_Pig]

I have always liked and believed in Grossman. And yes, he led a team to the Superbowl last year so he deserves some better respect. :shrug:

[Palehose13]

I have always liked and believed in Grossman. And yes, he led a team to the Superbowl last year so he deserves some better respect. :shrug:
:clap:

*will be wearing Grossman jersey at bar tonight for game*

[Spider_Pig]

More like first quarter actually. :D

But hopefully the offense keeps up this great pace and improves some more tonight. Grossman and this new and improved offence look impressive to me.

[MeanFish]

i like his beard

http://gobears.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/orton.JPG

This picture never gets old.

[maurice]

Sox fans are tough on their players...generally
Cub fans don't really care
. . . unless they're black.

I still can't figure out why Bears fans are rough on Orton but endlessly forgiving of Grossman.

Orton was, what, a 4th round pick thrust into the starting role as a rookie?

[Palehose13]

http://gobears.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/orton.JPG

This picture never gets old.

That chick is sooooo not cute.

[Spider_Pig]

And Orton's neck-beard approves! :thumbsup:

[MeanFish]

That chick is sooooo not cute.

That picture is classic for no less than two reasons:

1.) As you said, she's sooooo not cute.
2.) Look at the timestamp. 11am on a Wednesday. Rofl.

[Dan Mega]

I'm an Orton fan. I heard he had a great camp:shrug:

:ditto:

Orton could be better than Grossman!

Orton could be better than Grossman!

:fact:

[Spider_Pig]

Let's not get caried away... :shrug:

[fquaye14ten]

. . . unless they're black.

I still can't figure out why Bears fans are rough on Orton but endlessly forgiving of Grossman.

Orton was, what, a 4th round pick thrust into the starting role as a rookie?

bears fans aren't very forgiving of grossman

orton doesn't take that much flak. his performance simply didn't show very much positive at all when he was starting. there was no reason at all to be high on him. rex on the other hand, even when struggling mightily, was still flashing greatness.

orton, allegedly, has improved a lot. that is awesome. i'd love to see him have success as a bear if grossman fails. however, i simply think it's a lot more likely that grossman will succeed.

we shouldn't forget, though, how good orton was at purdue before his injury at the hands of the badass badgers

[Spider_Pig]

Orton has impressed me on how much better and more mature he seems, especially since he went from emergency starter who went 10-5 to now third string. Grossman is still the better QB though. His great moments are greater. :)

[Dan Mega]

Orton is prone to less "WTF WAS THAT" mistakes me thinks.

Plus nobody can deny the power of the neckbeard.

[maurice]

Through the miracle of TIVO, I was able to attend the Sox game and then watch every play by Grossman tonight.

In a very limited number of plays, he had 3 fumbles and a very ugly INT . . . in a dome.
:jagoff:

[Spider_Pig]

Grossman had a rough game. I had the difficulty of watching both the Sox and the Bears play at the same time. (Two tvs in close proximity) Luckily I managed to watch most of each. The only thing that frustrated me about the Bears game is after the second half began, the camera never seemed to be on the actually game played. They kept having those stupid in-game interviews. Very annoying since I wanted to see the game. But it was a good day, with both the Sox and Bears coming out triumphant. :rock:

[Bonzosa]

Grossman was a joke tonight.

:chortle:

[Spider_Pig]

I didn't laugh, however. :D

The only one that I really cared about was the stripped fumble. The other two weren't turned over, and well he kind of forced the interception. Those things happen. He sure needs to get more comfortable in the pocket, like we were discussing earlier, and be aware of things that are going around him without panicking.

[fquaye14ten]

yup. he played poorly. bummer.

i guess since we're putting a lot of stock in preseason performance, Quinn is going to win MVP :shrug:

[Unregistered]

Still, 3 fucking fumbles dude - including one on the 3 yard line or whatever. Pull your head out of your ass, Grossman. Get together with Kreutz and work it out.

On the other hand, he was 9 for 11 on completions. So there's that...

[fquaye14ten]

definitely something that's easily correctable though

you hate to see it, especially considering he should have learned from the NE game....but it's not like he can't possibly stop fumbling the snap ever.

it's not like you say a guy "is a great qb but just can't stop fumbling the snap"

[Unregistered]

definitely something that's easily correctable though

you hate to see it, especially considering he should have learned from the NE game....but it's not like he can't possibly stop fumbling the snap ever.

it's not like you say a guy "is a great qb but just can't stop fumbling the snap"

No kidding. But wouldn't it be ridiculous if it was something we HAD to say?

Like you said, this shouldn't be an issue. And luckily this preseason game drew some attention to it, so hopefully he's not dropping the ball like it's December in Green Bay all season.

[fquaye14ten]

sure

it's also not like it's been a HABITUAL problem. it has happened before but it's not the end of the world imo

[Bonzosa]

definitely something that's easily correctable though

you hate to see it, especially considering he should have learned from the NE game....but it's not like he can't possibly stop fumbling the snap ever.

it's not like you say a guy "is a great qb but just can't stop fumbling the snap"

Exactly.
Because they don't co-exist.
Good game managers don't give freebies to the other team.
Remember, this occurred in a quarter and a half, and he found time to throw an awful pick for good measure.

It's pre-season so it means nothing, granted.
I was sitting there, watching the game and laughing out loud, remembering how familiar it all seemed. It was like coming across an old friend you didn't think you'd see again.

Let's hope he clears the cobwebs and gets this straightened.
Otherwise our season will look like the Dow as of late....

yup. he played poorly. bummer.

i guess since we're putting a lot of stock in preseason performance, Quinn is going to win MVP :shrug:
3rd String D's don't play the regular season.

[fquaye14ten]

and starting qb's don't play with the third string offense

what's your point?

[Dan Mega]

Damnit, start Orton already. At least this guy doesn't create his own blooper films.

[fquaye14ten]

SHUSH YOUR MOUTH LITTLE SWEETHEART

[Dan Mega]

Orton >>> Quinn
:fact:

[fquaye14ten]

ha! not in college. not in the nfl

[1951Campbell]

I still can't figure out why Bears fans are rough on Orton but endlessly forgiving of Grossman.



Neither can I.

[Palehose13]

Fumbling the snap is unforgivable, but all I have to say is John St. Claire vs. Dwight Freeney. That was the biggest joke of the game. I thought that Griese and Orton had a heck of a lot more time in the pocket than Grossman had, but I guess that is what happens when you play against the second and third string defenses. :shrug:

[SFS04]

So how was last night's Bears game? I was at the Sox spectacular.

[fquaye14ten]

Neither can I.

who the fuck are these magical people who forgive rex but ripped grossman?

i know me, prope, and val, and samram, to name 4 of the biggest grossman supporters on this site (as well as zo) didn't rip orton when he was struggling in 05

we saw him for what he was: a quarterback who didn't make a lot of mistakes, but was incapable of doing much besides "not making mistakes"

[Dan Mega]

who the fuck are these magical people who forgive rex but ripped grossman?

i know me, prope, and val, and samram, to name 4 of the biggest grossman supporters on this site (as well as zo) didn't rip orton when he was struggling in 05

we saw him for what he was: a quarterback who didn't make a lot of mistakes, but was incapable of doing much besides "not making mistakes"

With this defense and running game, we need a QB is prone to NOT making mistakes.

Orton can march an offense down the field efficiently. Grossman can either throw it deep or make a boneheaded play. I hope he proves me wrong eventually, but Orton's time is now.

[fquaye14ten]

With this defense and running game, we need a QB is prone to NOT making mistakes.

you mean our one-deep rushing game that features a back who hasn't shown he can give you 20+ carries for 16 games?

I would agree we need less mistakes, but given the fact that our passing game relies on speed (hell, our "possession" receiver, moose, drops balls on a regular basis) rather than precision, I would argue that we NEED a receiver who can throw the deep ball.

Even at his peak at Purdue, Orton wasn't particularly adept at going downfield.

In an offense that features Berrian, Bradley, Hester, and Olsen, we're not going to succeed with west-coast nickle and dime shit.

We need a QB like Grossman, and we need him to step up and quit fucking up.


Orton can march an offense down the field efficiently.

when has he ever proven that? do you mean at Purdue?


Grossman can either throw it deep or make a boneheaded play.

any QB can make a bonehead play. None of the other QB's on our team can throw it deep, however, and with our receiver set and unproven running game, throwing it deep is a necessity.

It's true that last year Rex made many many more boneheaded plays than most QB's, but for you to throw in the towel already after one very good preseason game and one very bad game in regards to "taking snaps" if not ACTUALLY PASSING THE BALL is pretty ridiculous. And to suggest that ORTON take his place? I'm a little dumbfounded, actually.


I hope he proves me wrong eventually, but Orton's time is now.

read what you just typed. Orton's time may yet come, but NOW? You talk about Quinn vs. a third string defense....Orton hasn't looked nearly as good against third-strings, and you think that means a goddamned thing? All my sarcasm about Quinn aside, let's be realistic: Orton has never shown us anything that would make us think he will succeed in the offense we are fielding right now.

I can buy the Griese argument. I don't agree with it, but it makes a whole lot more sense than this Orton crap

ps: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7282/career

:rolleyes: at mega GIRL

[Dan Mega]

I don't agree with it, but it makes a whole lot more sense than this Orton crap

ps: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7282/career

:rolleyes: at mega GIRL

Tell me, who is more capable of singlehandedly losing games, Grossman or Orton?

I bet you'll refuse to answer.

Oh and that link you posted was his first full year as a fresh rookie. He took some major hits and got back up. Besides 2 bad games as a rookie, the others were efficient enough by a rookie QB to win.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7282/gamelog;_ylt=AmyfRnD7ipxjzJpXFF.lmmL.uLYF?year=200 5

The Cincy and 2nd Green Bay games were bad. But lets see them top the bad games that Grossman had last year as a 3RD YEAR quarterback.

[Palehose13]

who the fuck are these magical people who forgive rex but ripped grossman?

i know me, prope, and val, and samram, to name 4 of the biggest grossman supporters on this site (as well as zo) didn't rip orton when he was struggling in 05

we saw him for what he was: a quarterback who didn't make a lot of mistakes, but was incapable of doing much besides "not making mistakes"

QFT

With this defense and running game, we need a QB is prone to NOT making mistakes.

Orton can march an offense down the field efficiently. Grossman can either throw it deep or make a boneheaded play. I hope he proves me wrong eventually, but Orton's time is now.

Are you kidding? With Orton in there the Bears pretty much have a one-dimensional offense and then opposing defenses start stacking 8 in the box and the Bears are 3 and out. At least with Grossman (or even Griese) just being in there, the opposing defense have to stay honest because of a downfield threat.

I'm with wong here (surprise). People may have a valid argument with Griese, but Orton...nope. Don't get me wrong, I think he is a fine QB, but nothing close to ever being great.

[fquaye14ten]

Tell me, who is more capable of singlehandedly losing games, Grossman or Orton?

I bet you'll refuse to answer.

grossman.

tell me, who do you want as QB in the playoffs when the D decides to take 2 quarters off

or when Mike Brown is hurt for the eleventieth time and we therefore can't stop an elite running game.

Or if one of our D-linemen get hurt and we have no pressure on the QB.

We can't just RELY on the defense--they showed us that in the playoffs last year.

This defense isn't the 1985 defense. They're not going to win games by themselves.

You can point to Grossman's performance in the super bowl, but the defense was just as embarrassing.

Grossman is the only player on this team that can make this offense a very good one.

Will he? Who knows...but putting a qb like orton in is a pussy move and assures us of playoff failure.

[Palehose13]

Tell me, who is more capable of singlehandedly losing games, Grossman or Orton?

I bet you'll refuse to answer.

Grossman.


Now tell me, who is more likely to singlehandedly win games?

[fquaye14ten]

see above val! i am too fast 4 u

[Dan Mega]

Oh, and here is Grossman's line from last year, as a 3rd year quarterback who can't take hits like Orton can:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6358/gamelog;_ylt=AlNhbaMGKcVPNfSeD3aGTwr.uLYF

Some pretty damn good games in there against the powerhouse defenses of San Francisco (with excellent field position all game) and Detroit. I especially love those games where he had ratings of 10.2, 1.3, and 0.0.

Like I said, Grossman will LOSE games singlehandedly, where Orton will not.

Lets see if Wong is capable of presenting an argument without the stupid, and childish, personal attacks.

For anyone that makes the "defense sucked in the superbowl" argument to try to actually use and defend Grossman's performance, yeah, I'm sure his 4 turnovers that led the defense to being on the field so damn long wasn't his fault.

[fquaye14ten]

third year qb? in name only.

convenient how you ignore games against the pretty good d's of GB and Minnesota, as well as Buffalo, Seattle, Giants, Rams, and Buccaneers.

Of course Orton is less likely to "lose" games. Read my last post, and address that.

Orton was playing with a completely healthy defense and still had to get lucky to win games...

Grossman in the playoffs won the seattle game our defense absolutely failed to show up for, helped us beat NO when our defense was getting torched by deuce and bush, and didn't do any worth than our defense's pathetic showing vs. the colts in the super bowl.

Fact is, our defense becomes exposed if just one of its standout members goes down.

If any one of the following players gets injured:

Mike Brown
Lance Briggs
Brian Urlacher
Charles Tillman
Tommie Harris
Any one of our DE's

our defense becomes above-average at best. You saw that last year. As soon as Brown went down, we became a lot weaker against the run.

Even if we assume that Orton won't make mistakes (in limited opportunities he had 13 INT and 12 fumbles), do you really want to bet your season on our defense remaining elite?

We have a lot of tools on offense to account for defensive shortcomings.

And anyway, I'm not convinced that even WITH a healthy defense we can beat a NE, Denver, Baltimore, or INDY without any offense.

Even if you think our D is as good as that Ravens D that won the super bowl, keep in mind we wouldn't be playing as shitty team as the Giants once we got there.

If your goal is to make the playoffs and lose in the first round, by all means advocate orton.

If you would like to, I don't know, return to the super bowl and potentially win it, Orton is not the answer

[Dan Mega]

If your goal is to make the playoffs and lose in the first round, by all means advocate orton.

If you would like to, I don't know, return to the super bowl and potentially win it, Orton is not the answer

I guess I'll have to use statistics instead of "he did this" and "that didn't count" and "he was lucky" or other hindsight:

ATT COMP PCT% TD INT YDS
110 198 55.6 9 10 1498
190 368 51.6 9 13 1869

Guess which stats are Orton's rookie season?

Guess which stats are of Unitas's rookie season?

I rest my case.

What I'm trying to say is turnovers lose games. If a guy can throw 23 TD's and 3000+ yards, then great. It doesn't mean squat if he has over 30 turnovers during the course of the season.

With a (hopefully) good running game and great defense, the QB position is better left off as being safe than sorry.

[fquaye14ten]

I guess I'll have to use statistics instead of "he did this" and "that didn't count" and "he was lucky" or other hindsight:

ATT COMP PCT% TD INT YDS
110 198 55.6 9 10 1498
190 368 51.6 9 13 1869

Guess which stats are Orton's rookie season?

Guess which stats are of Unitas's rookie season?

I rest my case.

What I'm trying to say is turnovers lose games. If a guy can throw 23 TD's and 3000+ yards, then great. It doesn't mean squat if he has over 30 turnovers during the course of the season.

With a (hopefully) good running game and great defense, the QB position is better left off as being safe than sorry.

do you want to start playing the "first full year as a quarterback" game?

it's pointless. Let's compare Rick Mirer's first full year to Bledsoe's. Or Manning's.

[Prope]

we saw him for what he was: a quarterback who didn't make a lot of mistakes, but was incapable of doing much besides "not making mistakes"
The Bears never won because of Kyle Orton, they won despite Kyle Orton. Kyle Orton isn't the guy that is going to win you games. I think that is what you see Wong, Val, Samram, and I feel about Grossman. That he is the first Bears qb in a long time (maybe ever) who could actually go out and win the game.

[Palehose13]

The Bears never won because of Kyle Orton, they won despite Kyle Orton. Kyle Orton isn't the guy that is going to win you games. I think that is what you see Wong, Val, Samram, and I feel about Grossman. That he is the first Bears qb in a long time (maybe ever) who could actually go out and win the game.

Yeah. That would be exactly it for me.

[Prope]

I still can't figure out why Bears fans are rough on Orton but endlessly forgiving of Grossman.
Kornheiser made a point before kickoff that if Peyton Manning checks off and completes a two yard pass, he is hailed as a qb who sees the field and knows how to play. If Grossman completes a 70 yard touchdown pass, he is lucky.

Nobody in Chicago forgives Rex.

Oh, and here is Grossman's line from last year, as a 3rd year quarterback, whose had three different offensive coordinators, who can't take hits like Orton can:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6358/gamelog;_ylt=AlNhbaMGKcVPNfSeD3aGTwr.uLYF

Some pretty damn good games in there against the powerhouse defenses of San Francisco (with excellent field position all game) and Detroit. I especially love those games where he had ratings of 10.2, 1.3, and 0.0.

Like I said, Grossman will LOSE games singlehandedly, where Orton will not.

Lets see if Wong is capable of presenting an argument without the stupid, and childish, personal attacks.

For anyone that makes the "defense sucked in the superbowl" argument to try to actually use and defend Grossman's performance, yeah, I'm sure his 4 turnovers that led the defense to being on the field so damn long wasn't his fault.
Fixed.

[Palehose13]

^ Ah yes, most people tend to forget about the rotating offensive coordinators. Even the great Brett Favre doesn't like switching systems.

[Prope]

Kyle Orton is the next Johnny Unitas???

Please tell me that was hyperbole.

^ Ah yes, most people tend to forget about the rotating offensive coordinators. Even the great Brett Favre doesn't like switching systems.
People also forget that to a man, the rest of the team wants Grossman. I think their say weighs a lot more than ours.

[Palehose13]

People also forget that to a man, the rest of the team wants Grossman. I think their say weighs a lot more than ours.

Pffft. Those blockheads know nothing about winning football games.

[fquaye14ten]

The Bears never won because of Kyle Orton, they won despite Kyle Orton. Kyle Orton isn't the guy that is going to win you games. I think that is what you see Wong, Val, Samram, and I feel about Grossman. That he is the first Bears qb in a long time (maybe ever) who could actually go out and win the game.

and he did in the playoff game vs. seattle where the run defense completely shat the bed

[Prope]

^ Case closed

[Dan Mega]

Kyle Orton is the next Johnny Unitas???


Where did I post that?

[Prope]

Where did I post that?
Here.
I guess I'll have to use statistics instead of "he did this" and "that didn't count" and "he was lucky" or other hindsight:

ATT COMP PCT% TD INT YDS
110 198 55.6 9 10 1498
190 368 51.6 9 13 1869

Guess which stats are Orton's rookie season?

Guess which stats are of Unitas's rookie season?

I rest my case.

[Dan Mega]

and he did in the playoff game vs. seattle where the run defense completely shat the bed

They gave up 108 yards to a top 5 RB in the league. How exactly is this crapping the bed? Its not great but its not like they gave up 200+ yards because of Grossman's constant turnovers (unlike the SB).

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/boxscore;_ylt=AjfHbUhNHSYxjAXMFn3MBvsisLYF?gid=200 70114003

Gould against Seattle- 9 points
Grossman against Seattle- 6 points, 2 turnovers that led to 14 points.

Next.

Here.

So where exactly did I say Orton was the next Unitas?

It was for anyone that wanted to point to Orton's stats and try to say that he was a bum. By comparison, Unitas "could have" been a bum as well. People are judging Orton because he didn't put up 3000 yards and 23 touchdowns. What they are refusing to admit though is that Grossman is the #1 reason why the Bears lost several games last season, including the Superbowl. Sure, there were other factors, but he was #1. Not to mention how many times we've seen him throw a 65 yard pass down the field only to have it turn into an INT, when he had 2 guys wide open on the flat. I'll take that 4 yard gain over his boneheaded fumbles and interceptions any day.

[Prope]

Why would you compare their statistics if you weren't doing that? Why would you ask us to figure out which one was which if you weren't doing that? Why would you go with, "I rest my case" if you weren't doing that?

Better question is this; why would you choose to compare statistics with a guy who played during an era where the passing game was not nearly as complicated or relied upon as it is today?

That doesn't make your pro-Orton argument any better.

[buehrlebabe]

The Bears never won because of Kyle Orton, they won despite Kyle Orton. Kyle Orton isn't the guy that is going to win you games. I think that is what you see Wong, Val, Samram, and I feel about Grossman. That he is the first Bears qb in a long time (maybe ever) who could actually go out and win the game.

Really?

[Prope]

[/B]

Really?
Absolutely.

[Palehose13]

Really?

Name someone else.

McMahon is the only one in my lifetime that I can remember, but even he didn't do it consistently and had perhaps the best defense eva.

[Dan Mega]

Why would you compare their statistics if you weren't doing that? Why would you ask us to figure out which one was which if you weren't doing that? Why would you go with, "I rest my case" if you weren't doing that?

Better question is this; why would you choose to compare statistics with a guy who played during an era where the passing game was not nearly as complicated or relied upon as it is today?

That doesn't make your pro-Orton argument any better.

It was for anyone that wanted to point to Orton's stats and try to say that he was a bum. By comparison, Unitas "could have" been a bum as well. People are judging Orton because he didn't put up 3000 yards and 23 touchdowns. What they are refusing to admit though is that Grossman is the #1 reason why the Bears lost several games last season, including the Superbowl. Sure, there were other factors, but he was #1. Not to mention how many times we've seen him throw a 65 yard pass down the field only to have it turn into an INT, when he had 2 guys wide open on the flat. I'll take that 4 yard gain over his boneheaded fumbles and interceptions any day.

See above.

[Prope]

Name someone else.

McMahon is the only one in my lifetime that I can remember, but even he didn't do it consistently and had perhaps the best defense eva.
I was three years old during the 1985 season, so I couldn't judge for myself.

From what I hear though, McMahon for the majority of his career was more myth than fact.

[Dan Mega]

It was for anyone that wanted to point to Orton's stats and try to say that he was a bum. By comparison, Unitas "could have" been a bum as well. People are judging Orton because he didn't put up 3000 yards and 23 touchdowns. What they are refusing to admit though is that Grossman is the #1 reason why the Bears lost several games last season, including the Superbowl. Sure, there were other factors, but he was #1. Not to mention how many times we've seen him throw a 65 yard pass down the field only to have it turn into an INT, when he had 2 guys wide open on the flat. I'll take that 4 yard gain over his boneheaded fumbles and interceptions any day.


See above.

Name someone else.

McMahon is the only one in my lifetime that I can remember, but even he didn't do it consistently and had perhaps the best defense eva.

Sid Luckman
Erik Kramer

[Prope]

It was for anyone that wanted to point to Orton's stats and try to say that he was a bum. By comparison, Unitas "could have" been a bum as well. People are judging Orton because he didn't put up 3000 yards and 23 touchdowns. What they are refusing to admit though is that Grossman is the #1 reason why the Bears lost several games last season, including the Superbowl. Sure, there were other factors, but he was #1. Not to mention how many times we've seen him throw a 65 yard pass down the field only to have it turn into an INT, when he had 2 guys wide open on the flat. I'll take that 4 yard gain over his boneheaded fumbles and interceptions any day.
In 1960 (the first year I can tell Pro-Football Reference compiles these stats) Johnny Unitas led the leage with 3099 passing yards. Here is how the Top 5 rounded out....
2. Norm Vanbrocklin, 2471
3. Milt Plum, 2297
4. Bobby Lane, 1814
5. Eddie LaBaron

Again, using Johnny Unitas is a bad example because before him how many 3,000 yard passers did you see?

They gave up 108 yards to a top 5 RB in the league. How exactly is this crapping the bed? Its not great but its not like they gave up 200+ yards because of Grossman's constant turnovers (unlike the SB).

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/boxscore;_ylt=AjfHbUhNHSYxjAXMFn3MBvsisLYF?gid=200 70114003

Gould against Seattle- 9 points
Grossman against Seattle- 6 points, 2 turnovers that led to 14 points.
You're forgetting Grossman's 282 yards passing.

[buehrlebabe]

I was three years old during the 1985 season, so I couldn't judge for myself.

From what I hear though, McMahon for the majority of his career was more myth than fact.

You just dated yourself. Too young for me:shrug: I loved jimbo, but correct on his career assesment. I do not agree that Rex can "go out and win games for us" :( I hope he proves me and the rex haters wrong. Did you see him last night?

[Prope]

Age is but a number.

[Palehose13]

I was three years old during the 1985 season, so I couldn't judge for myself.

From what I hear though, McMahon for the majority of his career was more myth than fact.

I was 11 and from what I remember, he was. His only claim that I can remember would be the 1985 Minnesota game.

Sid Luckman
Erik Kramer

Did you ever really see Luckman play? I sure haven't and if that as far back as we have to go...that's not so good.

As for Kramer, the team went 9-7 when he had the best season a Bear QB ever had.

So other than Luckman, Grossman is most likely the best QB Chicago has seen on the Bears in about 50 years. Sure, he wins the tallest midget contest, but give me a real solution...not Kyle Orton.

You just dated yourself. Too young for me:shrug: I loved jimbo, but correct on his career assesment. I do not agree that Rex can "go out and win games for us" :( I hope he proves me and the rex haters wrong. Did you see him last night?

Yes. Did you see St. Clair get pwned by Freeney?


Does anyone know if there is a way to find out how much time Grossman had after the snap before pressure vs. Griese and Orton. Maybe the Leine's had me seeing stuff in slow motion after halftime, but it shooo looked like the latter 2 had more time.

[Bonzosa]

grossman.

tell me, who do you want as QB in the playoffs when the D decides to take 2 quarters off

or when Mike Brown is hurt for the eleventieth time and we therefore can't stop an elite running game.

Or if one of our D-linemen get hurt and we have no pressure on the QB.

We can't just RELY on the defense--they showed us that in the playoffs last year.

This defense isn't the 1985 defense. (1) They're not going to win games by themselves.

(2)You can point to Grossman's performance in the super bowl, but the defense was just as embarrassing.

(3)Grossman is the only player on this team that can make this offense a very good one.

Will he? Who knows...but putting a qb like orton in is a pussy move and assures us of playoff failure.
:chortle:
(1)As a matter of fact they did do just that.
Did you happen to see the NYG or AZ game?
The defense and special teams set Rex up with amazing field position consistently throughout last year, and Rex found plenty of ways to not take advantage of it.
Don't even start telling me the defense isn't that great. They are the entire reason the Bears made the playoffs last year. W/o them, we were a .500 team, if that.
(2) Again, the defense was exhausted because Rex was completely incompetent and could not string together a series of first downs to rest the D. What do you expect to happen against the greatest O in the NFL? Why do you not acknowledge Rex's influence on the defense?
(3) Maybe, but how would any of us know this? Simply because he threw for the 2nd most yards in Bears history? :rolleyes:

[fquaye14ten]

They gave up 108 yards to a top 5 RB in the league. How exactly is this crapping the bed? Its not great but its not like they gave up 200+ yards because of Grossman's constant turnovers (unlike the SB).

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/boxscore;_ylt=AjfHbUhNHSYxjAXMFn3MBvsisLYF?gid=200 70114003

Gould against Seattle- 9 points
Grossman against Seattle- 6 points, 2 turnovers that led to 14 points.

Next.



So where exactly did I say Orton was the next Unitas?

It was for anyone that wanted to point to Orton's stats and try to say that he was a bum. By comparison, Unitas "could have" been a bum as well. People are judging Orton because he didn't put up 3000 yards and 23 touchdowns. What they are refusing to admit though is that Grossman is the #1 reason why the Bears lost several games last season, including the Superbowl. Sure, there were other factors, but he was #1. Not to mention how many times we've seen him throw a 65 yard pass down the field only to have it turn into an INT, when he had 2 guys wide open on the flat. I'll take that 4 yard gain over his boneheaded fumbles and interceptions any day.

who used his stats to say he was a bum. i was using the stats to show there was no reason to think he was any good.

there's a huge difference. stats can't PROVE a rookie qb is no good, but his 54 QB rating seems to suggest there's no reason to think he IS good

:chortle:
(1)As a matter of fact they did do just that.
the cardinals game is the last i saw them do that. after that brown got hurt and they were a shadow of their former self


Did you happen to see the NYG or AZ game?
The defense and special teams set Rex up with amazing field position consistently throughout last year, and Rex found plenty of ways to not take advantage of it.
Don't even start telling me the defense isn't that great. They are the entire reason the Bears made the playoffs last year. W/o them, we were a .500 team, if that.

so you're saying rex had a lousy game against the giants.

ok just making sure.


(2) Again, the defense was exhausted because Rex was completely incompetent and could not string together a series of first downs to rest the D. What do you expect to happen against the greatest O in the NFL? Why do you not acknowledge Rex's influence on the defense?

sure :rolleyes:


(3) Maybe, but how would any of us know this? Simply because he threw for the 2nd most yards in Bears history? :rolleyes:

i've said time and again why this was

a.) this offense is suited to grossman's unique abilities rather than orton's

b.) griese has never been much good anywhere. period. why would he be good here?

[Prope]

Does anyone know if there is a way to find out how much time Grossman had after the snap before pressure vs. Griese and Orton. Maybe the Leine's had me seeing stuff in slow motion after halftime, but it shooo looked like the latter 2 had more time.
Aside from taking a stop watch and rewatching the game, I don't think so.

You raise a good point though. Dwight Freeney is, obviously, one of the best in the league. I'm not sure where Tait stacks up against other LTs in the league, but I am sure he is higher than St. Clair. The line play is going to be huge this year.

[Bonzosa]

third year qb? in name only.

convenient how you ignore games against the pretty good d's of GB and Minnesota, as well as Buffalo, Seattle, Giants, Rams, and Buccaneers.

Of course Orton is less likely to "lose" games. Read my last post, and address that.

Orton was playing with a completely healthy defense and still had to get lucky to win games...

Grossman in the playoffs won the seattle game our defense absolutely failed to show up for, helped us beat NO when our defense was getting torched by deuce and bush, and didn't do any worth than our defense's pathetic showing vs. the colts in the super bowl.

Fact is, our defense becomes exposed if just one of its standout members goes down.

If any one of the following players gets injured:

Mike Brown
Lance Briggs
Brian Urlacher
Charles Tillman
Tommie Harris
Any one of our DE's

our defense becomes above-average at best. You saw that last year. As soon as Brown went down, we became a lot weaker against the run.

Even if we assume that Orton won't make mistakes (in limited opportunities he had 13 INT and 12 fumbles), do you really want to bet your season on our defense remaining elite?

(4)We have a lot of tools on offense to account for defensive shortcomings.

(5)And anyway, I'm not convinced that even WITH a healthy defense we can beat a NE, Denver, Baltimore, or INDY without any offense.

Even if you think our D is as good as that Ravens D that won the super bowl, keep in mind we wouldn't be playing as shitty team as the Giants once we got there.

If your goal is to make the playoffs and lose in the first round, by all means advocate orton.

If you would like to, I don't know, return to the super bowl and potentially win it, Orton is not the answer
(4)Yeah, but one of the guys is especially apt at fumbling repeatedly and throwing horrible interceptions. I won't say who.
(5) No shit sherlock. Hence the need for a QB who won't cough it up and can string a drive together (and not give freebies to the other team).

[fquaye14ten]

They gave up 108 yards to a top 5 RB in the league. How exactly is this crapping the bed? Its not great but its not like they gave up 200+ yards because of Grossman's constant turnovers (unlike the SB).

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/boxscore;_ylt=AjfHbUhNHSYxjAXMFn3MBvsisLYF?gid=200 70114003

Gould against Seattle- 9 points
Grossman against Seattle- 6 points, 2 turnovers that led to 14 points.



when it came time to stop alexander in the second half, the defense absolutely bit the big one.

grossman had 2 turnovers, it's true...but when the defense allowed seahawks back in it, rex led two big drives.

the run defense ultimately let us down in that game, and whatever he did in the 1st half, rex won that game for us

(4)Yeah, but one of the guys is especially apt at fumbling repeatedly and throwing horrible interceptions. I won't say who.

:shrug:

he's also apt to win games for us. I know another qb who threw a lot of interceptions and turned the ball over. He wore #4 and played about 200 miles north


(5) No shit sherlock. Hence the need for a QB who won't cough it up and can string a drive together (and not give freebies to the other team).

no. what you're advocating, especially considering who's on our roster besides Rex, is a Mark Brunell type QB--a game "manager" who "doesn't make mistakes" but doesn't do anything good.

i.e. a QB who hopes the defense wins the game for us. Since we both agree that, even 100% healthy, this defense ALONE is probably not good enough to beat NE or INDY, we need to find a QB who has the potential to put up a lot of points with this offense.

Maybe Rex is a roll of the dice, but if you don't roll the dice you can't win.

[Palehose13]

you're saying rex had a lousy game against the giants.

ok just making sure.


I don't think Bonzo saw the entire NYG game. From what I recall he had a losy first quarter...maybe even a mediocre second quarter, but was a fucking god in the second half.

[Prope]

John St. Clair's team picture...
http://www.brascon.com/turnprotecimg/turnstile.jpg

[Unregistered]

Why, that's a picture of a turnstile... that's not a professional football player at all! :ohmy:

[fquaye14ten]

:ohmy:x2

[Bonzosa]

who used his stats to say he was a bum. i was using the stats to show there was no reason to think he was any good.

there's a huge difference. stats can't PROVE a rookie qb is no good, but his 54 QB rating seems to suggest there's no reason to think he IS good


the cardinals game is the last i saw them do that. after that brown got hurt and they were a shadow of their former self



(6)so you're saying rex had a lousy game against the giants.

ok just making sure.



sure :rolleyes:



i've said time and again why this was

a.) this offense is suited to grossman's unique abilities rather than orton's

b.) griese has never been much good anywhere. period. why would he be good here?
(6) Grossman's first half was one of the worst I have ever seen. Thomas Jones' long run, the Bears D and special teams bailed his ass out of the first half and kept the Bears in it. Rex had 3 turnovers if I recall correctly and should have had 2 more that were in Giants' CB hands.
But I'll even concede this game which was actually awful despite his "rating".
What about the NE, MIA, MIN, and GB games?

Rex's stats do not tell the whole story about how horrible he was.
Like the Jets game where half his passing yards came on one throw.
The stats don't show his lack of ability to routinely get a series of first downs. There were few games where Rex was consistently good.

[Prope]

Why, that's a picture of a turnstile... that's not a professional football player at all! :ohmy:
I want to slip into some Jeans.


What about the NE, MIA, MIN, and GB games?
Which of those games was the one where Urlacher got faked out of his shoes by Tom Brady??

Also, throw the damn Green Bay game out the window. No matter what anybody will tell you, that game meant NOTHING.

[Palehose13]

John St. Clair's team picture...
http://www.brascon.com/turnprotecimg/turnstile.jpg

That is good shit right there.

I want to slip into some Jeans.
:ohmy:

[Bonzosa]

I don't think Bonzo saw the entire NYG game. From what I recall he had a losy first quarter...maybe even a mediocre second quarter, but was a fucking god in the second half.

Yahoo Sports Game Recap:
"Grossman, who struggled for almost the entire first half, finished 18-of-30 for 246 yards. Muhammad had seven catches for 123. Eli Manning (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6760/;_ylt=AmzMXWkkUxgfxdkqJTwtcsoisLYF) struggled against Brian Urlacher (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5038/;_ylt=At1NRPnw29XkRetO41d8akUisLYF) and the Bears' vaunted defense. He threw two interceptions and lost a fumble, finishing 14-of-32 for 121 yards.
Tiki Barber (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/3937/;_ylt=Aj5F94dEfZTLdMqOAZTCGdwisLYF), who sprained a thumb, led New York with 141 yards on 19 carries. The Giants came into the game missing five starters and they lost two more: Madison and offensive tackle Luke Petitgout (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4667/;_ylt=AtQLDAhqCQtcnz3z3b5y4W4isLYF), who broke his left leg."

[fquaye14ten]

tousch :rolleyes:

[Prope]

Tiki Barber (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/3937/;_ylt=Aj5F94dEfZTLdMqOAZTCGdwisLYF), who sprained a thumb, led New York with 141 yards on 19 carries.
Awesome effort by a defense that was missing both Brown and Harris.

[Dan Mega]

So I see a trend here for the people that think Grossman can do no wrong and that Orton shouldn't be given a second shot:

Grossman's fumbles weren't his fault.
Grossman's interceptions weren't his fault.
If the Bears won, it was because of Grossman
If the Bears lost, it was because the defense sucked.

Got it.

[Bonzosa]

I want to slip into some Jeans.


(7)Which of those games was the one where Urlacher got faked out of his shoes by Tom Brady??

Also, throw the damn Green Bay game out the window. No matter what anybody will tell you, that game meant NOTHING.

:chortle:
Exactly right Prope. Which make it even more embarrasing for Rex to take the field for just a couple series against a bad team and fark it up like that.
2 for 12 w/ 3 picks.
Awesome.
Simply brilliant.
Who would second guess a performance like that going into the playoffs?

(7) What does this have to do w/ Rex? Has the discussion gone to "who wins more games, Bears D or O?"
I don't think that is a winnable argument from your side...

[Prope]

So I see a trend here for the people that think Grossman can do no wrong and that Orton shouldn't be given a second shot:

Grossman's fumbles weren't his fault.
Grossman's interceptions weren't his fault.
If the Bears won, it was because of Grossman
If the Bears lost, it was because the defense sucked.

Got it.
You obviously haven't been paying attention.

(7) What does this have to do w/ Rex? Has the discussion gone to "who wins more games, Bears D or O?"
I don't think that is a winnable argument from your side...
You want to assess blame upon Grossman for the NE loss, but you won't say anything about 'All-World, Badass, Mr. Invincible' Brian Urlacher getting deked by TOM FREAKING BRADY. Nor do you talk about Tillman's personal foul at the end, that gave the Pats a first down, after they would have been in a punting situation.

[Dan Mega]

You obviously haven't been paying attention.


I guess the posts blaming Grossman's fumble on Dwight Freeney beating St Clair and the one where someone said the Bears defense was the reason why they lost the superbowl despite Grossman's ability to consistently take the offense off the field during that game don't exist.

You're right. I haven't been paying attention. Just making things up in my head. :rolleyes:

[fquaye14ten]

eh. no use reasoning with the rabid anti-rex fans nor the fans who think orton is the answer this year

[Bonzosa]

Awesome effort by a defense that was missing both Brown and Harris.
I am simply taken aback by the fact you and fquaye are going to make this argument about Rex vs Bears D.

And you complained in the other thread that I have selective memory?
Wow.:omg:

Look what your Rex lovin' is doing to your brain...

http://www.bostonist.com/attachments/boston_caroline/brain_on_drugs.jpg

[Dan Mega]

You want to assess blame upon Grossman for the NE loss, but you won't say anything about 'All-World, Badass, Mr. Invincible' Brian Urlacher getting deked by TOM FREAKING BRADY. Nor do you talk about Tillman's personal foul at the end, that gave the Pats a first down, after they would have been in a punting situation.

Grossman had the opportunity to win the game for the Bears, something that a few of you have said that Orton doesn't have the ability to do.

Was the interception at the end of the game the result of Urlacher getting juked or Tillman's penalty? How about his other turnovers?

[fquaye14ten]

I guess the posts blaming Grossman's fumble on Dwight Freeney beating St Clair and the one where someone said the Bears defense was the reason why they lost the superbowl despite Grossman's ability to consistently take the offense off the field during that game don't exist.

You're right. I haven't been paying attention. Just making things up in my head. :rolleyes:

no one said that. learn to read. i said the defense was AS MUCH A REASON as rex's horrible performance

[Dan Mega]

eh. no use reasoning with the rabid anti-rex fans nor the fans who think orton is the answer this year

I'm not anti-Rex. I am hoping that Rex succeeds. I just think Rex made enough mistakes to show the Bears staff that Orton deserves a longer look than just simply handing the job over to Rex no matter how many 1.3 QB rating games he has.

[fquaye14ten]

I am simply taken aback by the fact you and fquaye are going to make this argument about Rex vs Bears D.



lol...reading comprehension here is worse than in my freshman comp class

it's not rex vs. the bears d

the bears d is relevant b/c a lot of people think it's so good that as long as a quarterback doesn't turn the ball over the d will win the game for us (i.e. START ORTON HE DOES NOT MAKE MISTAKES NOR DOES HE MAKE COMPLETIONS)

the d is not that good.

it's not REX VS. THE BEARS D. it's "is the bears d good enough to win with orton completing 40 pct of his passes for like 100 yards every game


a: it's not

I'm not anti-Rex. I am hoping that Rex succeeds. I just think Rex made enough mistakes to show the Bears staff that Orton deserves a longer look than just simply handing the job over to Rex no matter how many 1.3 QB rating games he has.

you fell into the latter category, not the former

[Bonzosa]

You obviously haven't been paying attention.


(8)You want to assess blame upon Grossman for the NE loss, but you won't say anything about 'All-World, Badass, Mr. Invincible' Brian Urlacher getting deked by TOM FREAKING BRADY. Nor do you talk about Tillman's personal foul at the end, that gave the Pats a first down, after they would have been in a punting situation.
Really?
I didn't know I said that.
where was that?

I am talking about Rex's ineptitude, regardless of what the score of a game was (ie NYG)...

I still don't understand how this argument became "me and the Bears D vs you and Rex". That is not the issue. Rex is.

[Prope]

I guess the posts blaming Grossman's fumble on Dwight Freeney beating St Clair and the one where someone said the Bears defense was the reason why they lost the superbowl despite Grossman's ability to consistently take the offense off the field during that game don't exist.

You're right. I haven't been paying attention. Just making things up in my head. :rolleyes:
I blame Grossman raising his hands to high and not getting the snap on his fumbles.

I blame Grossman's aggressiveness for his throwing interceptions.

I think it is reasonable to assess blame not only on Grossman, but on that 'vaunted, great, reminds you of 1985' defense, when they don't play good. They did not play good against Seattle, or in the Super Bowl (I disagree with Quaye on the NO game, aside from one breakdown of tackling I thought they played pretty well.), and I think it is unfair to not place some of the blame upon them.

I think when the Bears won, the whole team played great. Where there occasions when the defense bailed out Rex? Yes, that happens on every team in which the quarterback isn't named Peyton Manning.

I am simply taken aback by the fact you and fquaye are going to make this argument about Rex vs Bears D.
I'm not making that argument.

no one said that. learn to read. i said the defense was AS MUCH A REASON as rex's horrible performance
Yep. That pretty much seems to be the same thing I am arguing.

I'm not anti-Rex. I am hoping that Rex succeeds. I just think Rex made enough mistakes to show the Bears staff that Orton deserves a longer look than just simply handing the job over to Rex no matter how many 1.3 QB rating games he has.
Ok, so what did Orton do in the 2005 season that proves he should have the starting job?

[fquaye14ten]

i never said they played awfully vs. no

i said it was necessary for grossman to step up and lead drives in the 2nd quarter and he did

orton would almost certainly not have (though we can't know for sure) irrespective of that the point is that even our AWESOME defense sometimes needs the offense to step up and make plays.

grossman is the only QB i can see doing tha t(though i wouldn't hate to see griese playing if grossman went down or just plain showed that he was incapable of consistence)

[Bonzosa]

lol...reading comprehension here is worse than in my freshman comp class

it's not rex vs. the bears d

the bears d is relevant b/c a lot of people think it's so good that as long as a quarterback doesn't turn the ball over the d will win the game for us (i.e. START ORTON HE DOES NOT MAKE MISTAKES NOR DOES HE MAKE COMPLETIONS)

the d is not that good.

it's not REX VS. THE BEARS D. it's "is the bears d good enough to win with orton completing 40 pct of his passes for like 100 yards every game


a: it's not



you fell into the latter category, not the former
:chortle:

So where is it I said Orton should be the starter?
What was that about reading comprehension?
Save the BS.

You and Prope are the ones trying to change the argument into something else.
My guess is it's because you are standing inside a glass house (or atop a house of cards, whichever analogy works best for you). :shrug:

[Prope]

i never said they played awfully vs. no

i said it was necessary for grossman to step up and lead drives in the 2nd quarter and he did
You're right, I went back and read it again.

[Bonzosa]

i never said they played awfully vs. no

i said it was necessary for grossman to step up and lead drives in the 2nd quarter and he did

orton would almost certainly not have (though we can't know for sure) irrespective of that the point is that even our AWESOME defense sometimes needs the offense to step up and make plays.

grossman is the only QB i can see doing tha t(though i wouldn't hate to see griese playing if grossman went down or just plain showed that he was incapable of consistence)
http://songs.jebaraj.com/Images/Thank_you_Jesus_NMJ_front.jpg

[Prope]

Is that poster you just uploaded?

[fquaye14ten]

next time post a larger picture

Damnit, start Orton already. At least this guy doesn't create his own blooper films.

mega's a moron.com

:chortle:

So where is it I said Orton should be the starter?
What was that about reading comprehension?
Save the BS.


you are such a piece of shit it makes me sick

i need to puke now b/c i hate you

[Bonzosa]

next time post a larger picture
I have honored your sarcastic request.
I didn't realize it would post that large...

[fquaye14ten]

With this defense and running game, we need a QB is prone to NOT making mistakes.

Orton can march an offense down the field efficiently. Grossman can either throw it deep or make a boneheaded play. I hope he proves me wrong eventually, but Orton's time is now.

ps--you are still lame

Tell me, who is more capable of singlehandedly losing games, Grossman or Orton?

I bet you'll refuse to answer.

Oh and that link you posted was his first full year as a fresh rookie. He took some major hits and got back up. Besides 2 bad games as a rookie, the others were efficient enough by a rookie QB to win.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7282/gamelog;_ylt=AmyfRnD7ipxjzJpXFF.lmmL.uLYF?year=200 5

The Cincy and 2nd Green Bay games were bad. But lets see them top the bad games that Grossman had last year as a 3RD YEAR quarterback.

ps you're a loser mega

[Bonzosa]

next time post a larger picture



mega's a moron.com



you are such a piece of shit it makes me sick

i need to puke now b/c i hate you
I think you're just choking on your own BS.
Open up and say ahhhhhhhhhhh

[fquaye14ten]

I guess I'll have to use statistics instead of "he did this" and "that didn't count" and "he was lucky" or other hindsight:

ATT COMP PCT% TD INT YDS
110 198 55.6 9 10 1498
190 368 51.6 9 13 1869

Guess which stats are Orton's rookie season?

Guess which stats are of Unitas's rookie season?

I rest my case.

What I'm trying to say is turnovers lose games. If a guy can throw 23 TD's and 3000+ yards, then great. It doesn't mean squat if he has over 30 turnovers during the course of the season.

With a (hopefully) good running game and great defense, the QB position is better left off as being safe than sorry.

ps: what a tool this mega guy is

[Dan Mega]

ps: what a tool this mega guy is

Translation: I can't win this argument, so I'll just throw stupid insults at Mega instead. Rex Grossman is my hero and I want him to :anal: me.

[maurice]

This thread pretty much confirms that the Rex love is derived from the fact that he maybe just might have a chance to become the tallest midget . . . and he might. Then again, he might not. It's entirely possible that he just has a million dollar arm and a ten cent head. The rest is just window dressing.

Everybody knows that I'm all for giving young players with talent multiple chances to prove that they can be great. Rex still hasn't done that. You're all just projecting him (either positively and negatively). If he doesn't prove himself this year, he stops being a young player with promise and starts being a bust. The Bears know this; it's why they haven't extended him. The line in the sand is drawn. There are no more excuses.

As for the defense, Archuletta could be the key. He's potentially a much better run-stopper than Brown, who is undersized for that role. If Brown gets injured again, Manning can step in without diminishing the run D. Gotta keep Harris healthy, though.

[Palehose13]

Yahoo Sports Game Recap:
"Grossman, who struggled for almost the entire first half, finished 18-of-30 for 246 yards. Muhammad had seven catches for 123. Eli Manning (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6760/;_ylt=AmzMXWkkUxgfxdkqJTwtcsoisLYF) struggled against Brian Urlacher (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5038/;_ylt=At1NRPnw29XkRetO41d8akUisLYF) and the Bears' vaunted defense. He threw two interceptions and lost a fumble, finishing 14-of-32 for 121 yards.
Tiki Barber (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/3937/;_ylt=Aj5F94dEfZTLdMqOAZTCGdwisLYF), who sprained a thumb, led New York with 141 yards on 19 carries. The Giants came into the game missing five starters and they lost two more: Madison and offensive tackle Luke Petitgout (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4667/;_ylt=AtQLDAhqCQtcnz3z3b5y4W4isLYF), who broke his left leg."

Annnnndddd...this supports my post.

So I see a trend here for the people that think Grossman can do no wrong and that Orton shouldn't be given a second shot:

Grossman's fumbles weren't his fault.
Grossman's interceptions weren't his fault.
If the Bears won, it was because of Grossman
If the Bears lost, it was because the defense sucked.

Got it.

Nope. I think you are picking and choosing what you want to read out of the posts. Prope's very simplified post pretty much sums up what we are trying to communicate.
I guess the posts blaming Grossman's fumble on Dwight Freeney beating St Clair

You're right. I haven't been paying attention. Just making things up in my head. :rolleyes:

Well, that you are making up. I believe I wrote that Grossman fumbling snaps is bad. I believe I also wrote that he didn't have a lot of time (after cleaning receiving a snap) because Freeney manhandled St. Clair. If anyone has a DVD of the game, I will voluntarily sit there with a stopwatch and take stats of Grossman, Griece, and Orton and time allowed by the O-line. Now please read this...I am not saying that this is the SOLE REASON for a poor performance by Grossman, but is certainly a contributing factor.

[fquaye14ten]

Translation: I can't win this argument, so I'll just throw stupid insults at Mega instead. Rex Grossman is my hero and I want him to :anal: me.

no, dude, you told me i can't read because "you never said that orton shoudl start"

i linked to several posts where you did in fact say that, therefore your insult was ridiculous and you are a douche and zoso has lost respect for you

[Bonzosa]

Let me know if you see a correlation between Bears scoring and field position.
This is a recap of the Bears possessions for the Giants game. (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/boxscore?gid=20061112019&page=drives)
That one where Rex was so awesome (palehose, fquaye).
Again, who has selective memory?
Who saw the game? Perhaps palehose only saw the second half.

Q:Who's interpretation is more accurate?
A: Mine

Q:So does the QB rating tell the whole story?
A: Probably not.

[Palehose13]

If he doesn't prove himself this year, he stops being a young player with promise and starts being a bust. The Bears know this; it's why they haven't extended him. The line in the sand is drawn. There are no more excuses.


YES!!!! I am totally on this boat.

[fquaye14ten]

Let me know if you see a correlation between Bears scoring and field position.
This is a recap of the Bears possessions for the Giants game. (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/boxscore?gid=20061112019&page=drives)
That one where Rex was so awesome.

Q:So does the QB rating tell the whole story?
A: Probably not.

so how did he pass for 170 yards :rolleyes:

[Prope]

I'm not anti-Rex. I am hoping that Rex succeeds. I just think Rex made enough mistakes to show the Bears staff that Orton deserves a longer look than just simply handing the job over to Rex no matter how many 1.3 QB rating games he has.
So what did Orton prove in 2005 to earn that longer look?

[fquaye14ten]

This thread pretty much confirms that the Rex love is derived from the fact that he maybe just might have a chance to become the tallest midget . . . and he might. Then again, he might not. It's entirely possible that he just has a million dollar arm and a ten cent head. The rest is just window dressing.

Everybody knows that I'm all for giving young players with talent multiple chances to prove that they can be great. Rex still hasn't done that. You're all just projecting him (either positively and negatively). If he doesn't prove himself this year, he stops being a young player with promise and starts being a bust. The Bears know this; it's why they haven't extended him. The line in the sand is drawn. There are no more excuses.

As for the defense, Archuletta could be the key. He's potentially a much better run-stopper than Brown, who is undersized for that role. If Brown gets injured again, Manning can step in without diminishing the run D. Gotta keep Harris healthy, though.

maurice, as usual, is right.

Rex hasn't proven anything about who he is as a QB, but rather who he is likely to be.

We've seen both sides of the coin. Time to give him a chance to sink or swim in his second full year. This season WILL NOT be won or loss in the first 6 games, so there's no reason not to give him that much rope

[fquaye14ten]

zoso Karl (2:36:47 PM): i just lost a lot of respect for dan mega

[Bonzosa]

I was super impressed with all the 1 and 2 minute drives Rex put together in order to rest the D.
Awesome!

[fquaye14ten]

i'm super impressed by your refusal to move on from this one sticking point.
Awesome!

[Bonzosa]

so how did he pass for 170 yards :rolleyes:
First, let me point out how awesome 170 yards in passing is, especially since 150 yards is the gold standard for a good QB game. :rolleyes:

Did you even look at the link?
Have you read my other posts where I state that the Bears D handed him good field position for most of the game?
Where I said that his QB rating does not accurately reflect the way he performed?

What are you rolling your eyes at?

Fquaye, I wish that in football we could win football games based on FANTASY Football stats, but that doesn't happen in real life.
In real life, fumbles happen by QB's, even though they don't show up in the stats. In real life we need more 4 minute+ drives in order to rest the D.
In real life, you can't expect the defense to do 60% of the offenses' work in order to put the ball in the endzone.

[Palehose13]

Let me know if you see a correlation between Bears scoring and field position.
This is a recap of the Bears possessions for the Giants game. (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/boxscore?gid=20061112019&page=drives)
That one where Rex was so awesome.

Q:So does the QB rating tell the whole story?
A: Probably not.

2nd Quarter
Chicago - 2:15
1st-10, CHI26 2:15 R. Grossman passed to M. Bradley to the left for 6 yard gain
2nd-4, CHI32 2:00 R. Grossman passed to T. Jones to the left for 8 yard gain
1st-10, CHI40 1:45 R. Grossman incomplete pass down the middle
2nd-10, CHI40 1:39 CHI committed 5 yard penalty
2nd-15, CHI35 1:39 CHI committed 5 yard penalty
2nd-20, CHI30 1:39 R. Grossman passed to T. Jones to the left for 2 yard loss
3rd-22, CHI28 1:30 T. Jones rushed up the middle for 26 yard gain
1st-10, NYG46 1:04 CHI committed 5 yard penalty
1st-15, CHI49 0:56 R. Grossman incomplete pass down the middle
2nd-15, CHI49 0:48 R. Grossman passed to M. Muhammad down the middle for 22 yard gain
1st-10, NYG29 0:35 R. Grossman passed to M. Bradley to the left for 29 yard touchdown. R. Gould made PAT



3rd Quarter


Chicago - 14:54
1st-10, CHI36 14:54 R. Grossman passed to M. Muhammad down the middle for 19 yard gain
1st-10, NYG45 14:23 T. Jones rushed to the right for 5 yard gain
2nd-5, NYG40 13:47 T. Jones rushed to the right for 10 yard gain
1st-10, NYG30 13:12 NYG committed 5 yard penalty
1st-5, NYG25 13:00 R. Grossman incomplete pass to the right
2nd-5, NYG25 12:48 T. Jones rushed to the right for 1 yard loss
3rd-6, NYG26 11:58 R. Grossman passed to M. Muhammad down the middle for 21 yard gain. M. Muhammad fumbled. W. Demps recovered fumble


Chicago - 10:48
1st-10, NYG43* 10:48 T. Jones rushed to the right for 2 yard gain
2nd-8, NYG41 10:26 R. Grossman passed to T. Jones to the right for 4 yard gain. NYG committed 15 yard penalty
1st-10, NYG22 9:55 NYG committed 5 yard penalty
1st-10, NYG17 9:47 T. Jones rushed to the right for 7 yard gain
2nd-3, NYG10 9:15 T. Jones rushed up the middle for 6 yard gain. CHI committed 10 yard penalty
2nd-7, NYG14 9:08 T. Jones rushed to the right for 4 yard gain
3rd-3, NYG10 8:20 R. Grossman passed to M. Muhammad to the right for 10 yard touchdown. R. Gould made PAT

*Possession in NYG territory because of punt in end zone


Chicago - 7:23
1st-10, NYG21* 7:23 T. Jones rushed to the right for 2 yard gain
2nd-8, NYG19 6:59 R. Grossman passed to M. Bradley to the left for 6 yard gain
3rd-2, NYG13 6:20 T. Jones rushed to the left for 11 yard gain
1st-2, NYG2 5:35 R. Grossman passed to D. Clark down the middle for 2 yard touchdown.
R. Gould made PAT
*Field position because of recovered fumble

1st-10, CHI23 3:20 R. Grossman incomplete pass to the left
2nd-10, CHI23 3:15 T. Jones rushed to the left for 3 yard loss
3rd-13, CHI20 2:36 R. Grossman passed to M. Muhammad to the right for 13 yard gain
1st-10, CHI33 2:03 R. Grossman passed to R. Davis down the middle for 26 yard gain
1st-10, NYG41 1:20 T. Jones rushed to the right for 5 yard gain
2nd-5, NYG36 0:39 T. Jones rushed to the left for 1 yard gain

4th Quarter
Chicago continued
3rd-4, NYG35 15:00 CHI committed 5 yard penalty
3rd-9, NYG40 15:00 R. Grossman sacked by F. Robbins
4th-18, NYG49 14:23 B. Maynard punt, no return



Chicago - 10:53
1st-10, CHI38 10:53 T. Jones rushed up the middle for 1 yard gain
2nd-9, NYG45 10:17 R. Grossman passed to M. Bradley down the middle for 38 yard gain
1st-7, NYG7 9:37 T. Jones rushed to the right for 2 yard gain
2nd-5, NYG5 9:00 T. Jones rushed to the left for 3 yard gain
3rd-2, NYG2 8:20 T. Jones rushed to the left for 2 yard touchdown. R. Gould made PAT




Looks like a pretty good half of football from a QB for me. :shrug:

[Dan Mega]

I guess I should clarify:
When I mentioned Orton should start, I'm referring to this preseason.

As for the season starter, Orton should be given a shot at the starting job, which is not what I am currently seeing from Lovie "Rex is our quarterback" Smith.

There?

[Bonzosa]

i'm super impressed by your refusal to move on from this one sticking point.
Awesome!
I'm super impressed with your inability to recognize when I am right.
I'm super impressed with how far your head is up your ass when it comes to Rex.
I'm super impressed with the fact you have no retort to my post other than this worthless quote.

Consider yourself pwned.

[Dan Mega]

zoso Karl (2:36:47 PM): i just lost a lot of respect for dan mega

:shrug:

[Prope]

Tsk tsk Val,
Now how is he supposed to prove his point if throw facts at him?

I guess I should clarify:
When I mentioned Orton should start, I'm referring to this preseason.

As for the season starter, Orton should be given a shot at the starting job, which is not what I am currently seeing from Lovie "Rex is our quarterback" Smith.

There?
o.k.

[Palehose13]

I guess I should clarify:
When I mentioned Orton should start, I'm referring to this preseason.

As for the season starter, Orton should be given a shot at the starting job, which is not what I am currently seeing from Lovie "Rex is our quarterback" Smith.

There?

Sure. I would love to see Orton vs. a first string defense if that will stop this nonsense.

[Prope]

I'm super impressed with your inability to recognize when I am right.
I'm super impressed with how far your head is up your ass when it comes to Rex.
I'm super impressed with the fact you have no retort to my post other than this worthless quote.

Consider yourself pwned.
Post #165 is the only pwning that has taken place in this thread.

[Bonzosa]

Why are we skipping over Griese to go with Orton?

[Prope]

Because so have three other teams.

[Dan Mega]

The NFL secretly won't allow Griese to start. It would be too unfair for the Bears. He's that good.

[Bonzosa]

Post #165 is the only pwning that has taken place in this thread.
I didn't hear Prope or Palehose mention the role the D had in scoring.
How about those awesome drives
And again, since when is 170 yards a stellar game?
Who was pwned again?

I must say, I am really impressed with the drives Rex finished from the Giants 43 yard line and from the Giants 21.
Wow!

Because so have three other teams.
What 3 other teams have Orton as the #3?
:confused:

[Prope]

3 teams have passed on Griese, that is why he is in a Bears uniform.

[Palehose13]

I didn't hear Prope or Palehose mention the role the D had in scoring.
Actually, I did. Check out the * in the two out of the 6 possessions I posted.

But about the defense scoring. The Bears scored 4 TD's. Hester ran back the missed FG 108 yards for 1 TD. Rex threw for the other 3.

How about those awesome drives

Which ones? Rex's 74 yarder, 62 yarder, or the 59 yarder in making until Moose fumbled?


And again, since when is 170 yards a stellar game?
He actually had 246 that game. I don't know where you get 170, but if that was his passing yards for the second half...I'd say that is a fucking awesome half of football.
Who was pwned again?


That would be you.


Are you the Orton supporter? How about pulling up a typical Orton game so that we can compare?

[Bonzosa]

Which means he would not be more consistent than Rex, fumble the ball less and not throw fewer interceptions?

[Prope]

Which means he would not be more consistent than Rex, fumble the ball less and not throw fewer interceptions?
Which means three teams have found that he is not worthy of being a starting quarterback.

[maurice]

It might have had something to do with the fact that Griese used to be a little drinky.

[Bonzosa]

so how did he pass for 170 yards :rolleyes:
This is where I got 170 yards.

Those drives, great.
Awesome!

Which means three teams have found that he is not worthy of being a starting quarterback.
Not a better choice than Grossman?
Hmmmm....

[Palehose13]

For the record, here is Kyle Orton's best game statisically:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/boxscore?gid=20051030008&page=plays

[maurice]

Orton's complete 2005 game log (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/gamelog?statsId=7282&year=2005).

[Dan Mega]

For the record, here is Kyle Orton's best game statisically:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/boxscore?gid=20051030008&page=plays

Not bad for a 3rd-string rookie thrown into the fire. Agreed? No turnovers that I can see unless I'm missing something.

[maurice]

Orton had one horrible game in terms of turnovers and that was early.

Otherwise, there's not much to criticize, especially when you consider that most of the pro-Grossman arguments apply with greater force to Orton. He was okay for a rookie who wasn't remotely a top pick.
:shrug:

[Palehose13]

Not bad for a 3rd-string rookie thrown into the fire. Agreed? No turnovers that I can see unless I'm missing something.

I think you are missing that this was his best game. I also think that you are missing 9 TD's and 13 INT's in 2005, plus his 12 fumbles/5 lost. That pretty much blows a hole through the whole "game manager, no turnovers". Compared to Grossman of 2006 with 23 TD's 20 INT's, 7 fumbles/5 lost. :shrug:

Orton had one horrible game in terms of turnovers and that was early.

Otherwise, there's not much to criticize, especially when you consider that most of the pro-Grossman arguments apply with greater force to Orton. He was okay for a rookie who wasn't remotely a top pick.
:shrug:
Now who is doing the "tallest midget" thing. ;)

[Spider_Pig]

I think Orton mostly looked good because he was a rookie and isn't even that good. Sure he had a few good plays, but he never had those really, really horrible dumbass decision plays Grossman likes to make. I think that just clouds your judgement on this. Grossman is a better QB, he just needs to learn how to be a QB.

[Dan Mega]

I think you are missing that this was his best game. I also think that you are missing 9 TD's and 13 INT's in 2005, plus his 12 fumbles/5 lost. That pretty much blows a hole through the whole "game manager, no turnovers". Compared to Grossman of 2006 with 23 TD's 20 INT's, 7 fumbles/5 lost.

:confused:

3rd year QB Grossman groomed as a starter: 25 turnovers
Rookie QB with less offensive weapons, groomed as a backup, thrown into the fire: 18 turnovers

I was saying that Orton is less prone to boneheaded mistakes. This just proves it.

[maurice]

Yes, I'm arguing that they're both midgets and that you're all a bunch of midget-lovers who should just :hug:

[Dan Mega]

I like everyone on SATC.

[Palehose13]

:confused:

3rd year QB Grossman groomed as a starter: 25 turnovers
Rookie QB with less offensive weapons, groomed as a backup, thrown into the fire: 18 turnovers

I was saying that Orton is less prone to boneheaded mistakes. This just proves it.

How about first full season for each?

Sure he is less prone to make mistakes. He also is prone to not win games. 9 Touchdowns in a season?!?!?! Are you kidding me? 1800 yards passing? My point is that with Orton in at QB, the opposing defense stacks the box and practically takes away the run game.

I like everyone on SATC.

I do too. Well, except Stockdale.

[Spider_Pig]

Can good old Sid still throw?

[Palehose13]

Can good old Sid still throw?

Let's dig him up.

[Spider_Pig]

If that doesn't work, Joe Montana actually still looks like he can throw a good one still. :shrug:

[Palehose13]

If that doesn't work, Joe Montana actually still looks like he can throw a good one still. :shrug:

That's my guy!!!


But Montana was a product of the system. :jagoff:

[Spider_Pig]

Unretire Jerry Rice too. (My alltime favorite by the way)

He's got good moves on the dance floor, as well. :D

[maurice]

Wait, what happened to:
- the coordinator sucks
- the coordinator is new
- the receivers suck
- the O-line sucks
- the QB lacks experience
Etc.?

These things were even more true in 2005 than they are in 2007.

:) :D :confused: :( :eek: :rolleyes: :cool: ;)

[maurice]

Grossman has a much stronger arm than Montana and was a much higher draft pick. Also, Montana played his college ball at some school in Indiana. Therefore, Grossman will be a better starting QB than Montana was. QED.

;)

[Spider_Pig]

Grossman = Good and gets my support and cheers, but he better get his act together on the fumbles. ;)

[Dan Mega]

These things were even more true in 2005 than they are in 2007.

Or 2006.

Or 2006.

;) I'll see how many people jump on this ;)

[Palehose13]

Wait, what happened to:
- the coordinator sucks
- the coordinator is new
- the receivers suck
- the O-line sucks
- the QB lacks experience
Etc.?

These things were even more true in 2005 than they are in 2007.

:) :D :confused: :( :eek: :rolleyes: :cool: ;)

Sooooooo...what is your solution? Are you saying that Orton should be the starter?

The only argument that I would have against Griese starting is that Grossman shold be given this year to see if he is a bust or not. I can see where some may want to start Griese over Grossman...but ORTON?!?!?! I don't think I have ever seen a situation where part of the fan base is in support of having the third string QB as the starter.

[Dan Mega]

How about first full season for each?

Sure he is less prone to make mistakes. He also is prone to not win games. 9 Touchdowns in a season?!?!?! Are you kidding me? 1800 yards passing? My point is that with Orton in at QB, the opposing defense stacks the box and practically takes away the run game.


Grossman had prior NFL experience including regular season, preseason, and postseason. Its not like that doesn't count for anything.

And it has already been said- Orton got cast into the fire with less offensive weapons on an undeniably worse team and worse situation than Grossman, and he faired adequately for a rook.

Give neckbeard his shot!

[Palehose13]

Grossman = Good and gets my support and cheers, but he better get his act together on the fumbles. ;)

Pssst...Orton fumbled more in 2005 than Grossman did in 2006.

[Spider_Pig]

I say no to both Griese and Orton. Got to go with the Superbowl QB. But I do like the idea of having neck beard around... :thinking:

Funny thing is, like last night, Griese always seems to be awesome whenever Grossman sucks up the place. But whenever it doesn't really matter, he doesn't do anything spectacular.

[Palehose13]

Give neckbeard his shot!

Sure.














When Grossman and Griese aren't able to play due to injury or illness.

[Dan Mega]

Pssst...Orton fumbled more in 2005 than Grossman did in 2006.

Out of curiousity, how many of those were fumbled snaps compared to getting hit?

Additionally, how many games of NFL experience did each QB have before those respective seasons?

[Palehose13]

Out of curiousity, how many of those were fumbled snaps compared to getting hit?

Additionally, how many games of NFL experience did each QB have before those respective seasons?

I don't know. You can dig that up if you want.

Grossman has the potential to be a good NFL quarterback. Say like Brees, Bulger, maybe even #4. Orton has the potential to be...um....like Aaron Brooks. Perhaps AJ Feely. MAYBE Jeff Garcia.

Why not see if he can do it this year? If not, then cut him loose. For cripes sake, if we let him go nowwithout seeing if he is a bust or not a team like Atlanta, Oakland, or *gasp* Green Bay could pick him up and reap the benefits because the Bears weren't willing to explore Grossman's true potential.

[Bonzosa]

I don't know. You can dig that up if you want.

Grossman has the potential to be a good NFL quarterback. Say like Brees, Bulger, maybe even #4. Orton has the potential to be...um....like Aaron Brooks. Perhaps AJ Feely. MAYBE Jeff Garcia.

Why not see if he can do it this year? If not, then cut him loose. For cripes sake, if we let him go nowwithout seeing if he is a bust or not a team like Atlanta, Oakland, or *gasp* Green Bay could pick him up and reap the benefits because the Bears weren't willing to explore Grossman's true potential.

I am in agreement with letting Grosman have one more chance.
I want a solid line to be drawn, here, now, to determine when we can give up on the project IF it goes horribly wrong again.

What do you guys say? 5 Games, 6?
Then we can enter our jugdements into a final thread and put it to rest....for awhile...
Somebody will be able to say "told you so".
Agreement?
All this posturing is getting us nowhere. We need to see some regular season games...

[Palehose13]

I am in agreement with letting Grosman have one more chance.
I want a solid line to be drawn, here, now, to determine when we can give up on the project IF it goes horribly wrong again.

What do you guys say? 5 Games, 6?
Then we can enter our jugdements into a final thread and put it to rest....for awhile...
Somebody will be able to say "told you so".
Agreement?
All this posturing is getting us nowhere. We need to see some regular season games...

I would say at least 8...give him half the season. If he sucks, meaning he is more of a negative than a positive, I would not be opposed to seeing Griese.

[Spider_Pig]

I doubt he will be worse than last year, I see a really improved overall season comming. If he doesn't start every game, it's because he had another triumph against the astro turf...

[maurice]

Sooooooo...what is your solution?

My solution would have been Brees, but that ship has sailed (and his health was questionable at the time).

I think it's way too generous to say that you're going to guarantee Grossman 16 more starts, when he's already got about 28 of them under his belt (regular season + post-season). If he doesn't show any improvement, then they need to be prepared to dump him sooner than that . . . and I think they are prepared to do that. In the meanwhile, they'll make public statements of their confidence for the sake of Grossman and the media . . . but if/when they decide to make a move, the axe will come down quickly.

The coaches are in a far better position to determine whether the reigns should go to Griese or Orton, since we don't really get to see much of these guys. I imagine it will depend on their record at the time. If, God forbid, they fall out of playoff contention (which is hard to imagine), then they should go with Orton for the same reason that Danny Richar and Jerry Owens are starting every day for the Sox. If the coaches think that Orton lacks the potential to develop, then he shouldn't even make the squad.

[Palehose13]

My solution would have been Brees, but that ship has sailed (and his health was questionable at the time).

I think it's way too generous to say that you're going to guarantee Grossman 16 more starts, when he's already got about 28 of them under his belt (regular season + post-season). If he doesn't show any improvement, then they need to be prepared to dump him sooner than that . . . and I think they are prepared to do that. In the meanwhile, they'll make public statements of their confidence for the sake of Grossman and the media . . . but if/when they decide to make a move, the axe will come down quickly.

The coaches are in a far better position to determine whether the reigns should go to Griese or Orton, since we don't really get to see much of these guys. I imagine it will depend on their record at the time. If, God forbid, they fall out of playoff contention (which is hard to imagine), then they should go with Orton for the same reason that Danny Richar and Jerry Owens are starting every day for the Sox. If the coaches thought that Orton lacked the potential to develop, he shouldn't even make the squad.


Yes.


Yes.



And yes.

[Bonzosa]

By the way, did anyone see Pep (QB coach) after Rex's turnovers last night?
Priceless.

I say 6 games, max.
No marked improvement, he gone!
I am not going to let him alone tank our season if he does not play well.
I would replace him w/ Griese if he doesn't work out and if the season goes to shit put Orton to see what he can do.
If Orton and Grossman don't pan out, we get a high pick in the draft to pick QB thanks to our exit strategy. Although I really can't imagine it coming to that...
I don't think Orton is going to get the shot people want him to have this year.
He might just be our very own Jim Sorgi

[fquaye14ten]

I am in agreement with letting Grosman have one more chance.
I want a solid line to be drawn, here, now, to determine when we can give up on the project IF it goes horribly wrong again.

What do you guys say? 5 Games, 6?
Then we can enter our jugdements into a final thread and put it to rest....for awhile...
Somebody will be able to say "told you so".
Agreement?
All this posturing is getting us nowhere. We need to see some regular season games...

i'd say six games

if he has more than 3 awful games in 6 games, i'll be right there with you :shrug:

[Palehose13]

Elvis Grbac was a product of the system. Montana is one of the best that ever lived any way you slice it. If you need him, he'll be up in his room, masturbating.

I know. I would have used teal for the "product of the system" comment, but that is highly frowned upon here becasue apparently the smarties here can detect sarcasm when they see it. :cool:

[fquaye14ten]

hahah val was being sarcastic

that is, she better be or we're not friends anymore

[Palehose13]

hahah val was being sarcastic

that is, she better be or we're not friends anymore

Joe Montana is my favorite quarterback, ever. I would have his babies.


I have heard people say that he was a product of the system and those people are jagoffs.

[fquaye14ten]

Joe Montana is my favorite quarterback, ever. I would have his babies.


I have heard people say that he was a product of the system and those people are jagoffs.

this is why we are friends :hug:

[Spider_Pig]

My favorite QB ever is Rick Gannon, let's get him here, asap!

[Dan Mega]

Out of curiousity, does anyone think guys like Simms or Aikman were products of their systems, or did they just simply win? I am for the latter.

Most overrated QB ever = Joe Namath
Most underrated QB ever = ?

[fquaye14ten]

underrated= kerry collins, perhaps

[Prope]

Out of curiousity, does anyone think guys like Simms or Aikman were products of their systems, or did they just simply win? I am for the latter.

Most overrated QB ever = Joe Namath
Most underrated QB ever = ?

Most underrated......REX GROSSMAN!!!!! HELLLO!!!!

Seriously though...
Kerry Collins is a good choice, probably Brad Johnson too just off the top of my head. :shrug:

[fquaye14ten]

brad johnson is probably overrated, actually imo.

a lot of people point to his 96 qb rating in his SB season as representative of who he is as a QB. He's a glorified jim miller imo

[Spider_Pig]

Vinny was always underrated in my opninon at least. But then again he just racked up tons of yards over many years. :shrug:

[Bonzosa]

Bernie Kosar - Under/Over rated?

[maurice]

Over.

[Prope]

Bernie is wayyy over.

Rex gets 6 games

Phil Simms may be underrated - have to think about that one. I don't think the Cowboys win in the 90's without Aikman.

[Bonzosa]

Steve Young - product of the system?

[Spider_Pig]

...Steve Young was a good backup...