Some real Sox discussion

[Myrtle]

... for you people who are bitching about it so much. Here. Stop your bitching.

The question is, who do we want to be the Sox 5th starter? Don't answer with who you think is going to be the Sox 5th starter... because speculation about what the Sox are going to do could go on forever and let's face it, we don't really know anything anyway. So, who do you want to see in the starting rotation this season?

I am personally optimistic about Danks based on his spring training performance so far. I really like Haeger and would love to see him start just from what I saw at the end of 2006, but I'd like him to get some experience with his knuckleball in the bullpen first, plus, I hope AJ can learn how to catch him.

[Efilnikufesin]

I want Floyd to turn it around otherwise we got crap for Garcia.. We also don't know how well Gio is going to be as well, but as of right now Philly is laughing at KW for this deal.. I think with a little time and Cooper.. Floydd will be alright.

Danks I want to see become our "6th" Starter, I think and most of the stuff I read says the same thing.. He is not ready yet, needs another season of seasoning in the minors.

Masset, I want to see in the pen though him in the 5th hole nad Floyd in the Pen might work as well. I really don't know much about Masset and have not seen him throw to talk about him that much.

[Hangar18]

Danks is going to be our #5 guy its looking more and more ............

[fquaye14ten]

^^^that's silly. The deal made sense if for no other reason than getting Gio back and getting something for Freddy. Floyd will at least be potentially effective out of the pen. Furthermore, let Phillie laugh all they want, at the end of the year when Freddy is an adequate starter (at best) they got for ONE year, they can be laughing their way to third place in a difficult division. Hilarious!

Meanwhile, as for the question, I don't think Danks is ready---by many accounts his changeup is still one year away....that means with his two plus pitches he'll probably be effective in ST but come reg season he might run into some problems as the season goes along without a third pitch.

I'd like to see Floyd start the season there and if he absolutely can't do it, go to Haeger.

[fquaye14ten]

ps.---that's silly refers to efil's post, not hangar's

[Bonzosa]

Danks.
Another lefty would be good in the rotation. All signs I have seen or read through this for this forum point to him being more effective. I therefore want Danks.

If he starts to suck, we have the opportunity to plug Haeger or Floyd in. Nothing is permanent.

Why would you not go with the one that is pitching better?

Feeling better about a trade or waiting until changeup perfection is not a good enough reason. Pitchers are always working on pitches, it never stops.

[fquaye14ten]

the problem is waiting for the changeup to be EFFECTIVE.

Two pitches are enough to get by in spring training. They are not enough for a starter in a 30+ start regular season. If his changeup is ready to go, fine, but if not, start Floyd until he pitches his way out.

[1951Campbell]

My depth chart:

1. Floyd
2. Haeger
3. Danks

[Hangar18]

I wish we didnt trade GIO in the 1st place, and have to get him back .....

[CaptainBallz]

Also, it should be noted that Garcia isn't necessarily destroying so far this ST either. A big complaint has been his, surprise, lack of velocity.

of course it's just ST and Freddy's saying that he's just workin his way back in, but FWIW....

[the fluffer]

I wish we didnt trade GIO in the 1st place, and have to get him back .....

so effectively...

Sox get: Gavin Floyd & Jim Thome
Phillies get: Aaron Rowand, Daniel Haigwood & Freddy Garcia

STILL looks good to me.

[Efilnikufesin]

^^^that's silly. The deal made sense if for no other reason than getting Gio back and getting something for Freddy. Floyd will at least be potentially effective out of the pen. Furthermore, let Phillie laugh all they want, at the end of the year when Freddy is an adequate starter (at best) they got for ONE year, they can be laughing their way to third place in a difficult division. Hilarious!

I would think that we could have gotten allot more for Garcia other than a AA spect. My thinking is they felt that they could have cooper fix the same mech flaws, which is going to take a little time.

Phils have a very good shot at takin that Division. Best Rotation IMO in that Division. And we all know that pitching wins.

[Bonzosa]

Who's casting all the Danks votes, sounds like several of you want Floyd, where are the votes of support?
Oh I see, you talk about Floyd, but you really vote for Danks because deep down you know it's the right thing to do...
:thumbsup: I feel ya.

[fquaye14ten]

I think the Mets have a comparable rotation, and a much better lineup (though not a better infield).

[fquaye14ten]

meanwhile re: Freddy:

His velocity is down, his attitude is bad, and he's in his walk year.

We could have probably got an everyday player, but not of the caliber of Floyd or Gio.

It's a sliding scale---the surer the bet, the worse the quality.

For instance, we probably could have gotten Rowand for Garcia.......so technically anyone who says we could have gotten something else is probably right.

But for two top prospects? I doubt we could have gotten much more than that

[Efilnikufesin]

I think the Mets have a comparable rotation, and a much better lineup (though not a better infield).

Glavine, Perez and ElDuqe.. You are joking right? Compare that to Meyers, Hamels and Moyer...

Their line-ups are about the same.. The only major upgrade over the Phils is 3b and CF.. Otherwise the Phils are equal if not better at every postion.

[fquaye14ten]

yeah i just did compare to myers hamels and moyer

wow two fucking juggernatus of a staff :rolleyes:

[fquaye14ten]

and by the way i love this "let's name three pitchers thing" and then say "you're joking right"

[Efilnikufesin]

Can you name me the Mets #4 and #5 Starters opening day.. Cause if you can.. you have one leg up on Willie.

[the fluffer]

Glavine, Perez and ElDuqe.. You are joking right? Compare that to Meyers, Hamels and Moyer...

Their line-ups are about the same.. The only major upgrade over the Phils is 3b and CF.. Otherwise the Phils are equal if not better at every postion.


Glavine is better than anyone the Phillies will run out there... and you forgot Jon Maine and... uhhh, Pedro.

Who cares if the Phillies have a guy who throws hard, a guy who is 44 and a guy who hasn't proven himself durable enough to throw more than 120 innings... the PHILLIES HAVE NO BULLPEN.

The Mets will run away with it again, regardless of their "inferior" starting rotation, which by the way, will turn over by June 30th. Chan Ho Park, Oliver Perez and El Duque are placeholders for Mike Pelfrey, Philip Humber, and Juan Padilla - who will all see the rotation this season.

Besides, who needs a reliable rotation when you have a lights-out bullpen and your lineup will score 37 runs a game?

[Efilnikufesin]

Glavine is better than anyone the Phillies will run out there... and you forgot Jon Maine and... uhhh, Pedro.

Who cares if the Phillies have a guy who throws hard, a guy who is 44 and a guy who hasn't proven himself durable enough to throw more than 120 innings... the PHILLIES HAVE NO BULLPEN.

The Mets will run away with it again, regardless of their "inferior" starting rotation, which by the way, will turn over by June 30th. Chan Ho Park, Oliver Perez and El Duque are placeholders for Mike Pelfrey, Philip Humber, and Juan Padilla - who will all see the rotation this season.

Besides, who needs a reliable rotation when you have a lights-out bullpen and your lineup will score 37 runs a game?

Where is pedro this year.. on the DL, if he comes back it won't be till August time.. and That is a HUGE IF. I didn't forget Maine.. Just gave the Mets top 3 compared to the Phils top 3

Wait, The phils have El Duque.. when did I miss that trade! Moyer and OH are comparable, but I will take Moyer over OH everyday of the week.. He will pitch more inning this year.

The Phils have no Pen.. huh? They have a decent Pen, the mets have a slightly better one. both is nothing to write home about.

Yes, ask the 2006 White Sox how well that worked out for them..Scoring 500 runs a game and your 18 game winner giving up 499.

[fquaye14ten]

i just think it's funny that you think the phillies rotation is any better.

we're not comparing the mets to a team with a good rotation. we're comparing them to the phillies

[the fluffer]

Where is pedro this year.. on the DL, if he comes back it won't be till August time.. and That is a HUGE IF. I didn't forget Maine.. Just gave the Mets top 3 compared to the Phils top 3

Wait, The phils have El Duque.. when did I miss that trade! Moyer and OH are comparable, but I will take Moyer over OH everyday of the week.. He will pitch more inning this year.

The Phils have no Pen.. huh? They have a decent Pen, the mets have a slightly better one. both is nothing to write home about.

Yes, ask the 2006 White Sox how well that worked out for them..Scoring 500 runs a game and your 18 game winner giving up 499.

The Phillies bullpen is good? Since when? Tom Gordon.. then who?

The 2006 White Sox won 90 games. The 2006 Mets won 97 games. How many games did the Phillies win last year with that unbeatable 1-2-3 you speak of?

[Efilnikufesin]

The Phillies bullpen is good? Since when? Tom Gordon.. then who?

The 2006 White Sox won 90 games. The 2006 Mets won 97 games. How many games did the Phillies win last year with that unbeatable 1-2-3 you speak of?


Geoff Geary, Madson, Matt Smith..

Great they we won 90.. And that got us? Mets won 97 with Pedro in their rotation. Where is he again?

Meyers was the only one in that rotation who was there opening Day.. Hamels was called up in May time, and Moyer was trade.. Wait.. what is your point on this?
Phils won 85, and were closer than us to making the playoffs.

And Looking at the 06 Rotation of Wolf and Lidle which is now replaced by Eaton and Garcia.. I'd say they did an upgrade while the Mets did nothing this past offseason.

[Efilnikufesin]

i just think it's funny that you think the phillies rotation is any better.

we're not comparing the mets to a team with a good rotation. we're comparing them to the phillies

Isn't it time you tell us how drunk you are.. because you are not making any sense.. again.

[fquaye14ten]

the phillies's rotation is not impressive.

sorry.

i know you're always right, so i guess you're right again, even though you're wrong.

[Efilnikufesin]

the phillies's rotation is not impressive.

sorry.

i know you're always right, so i guess you're right again, even though you're wrong.

Neither is the Mets.. But out of the two the Phils is more impressive.

Not your fault you will learn

Where have I stated that?

[fquaye14ten]

phillies rotation:

Myers---career era >4.00, coming off a 3.90
hamel---showed promise in 2006 but not much else
garcia---has lost almost all his velocity
moyer---44, coming off a mediocre season
eaton---career era 4.40, coming off a 5.10 season

I see a lot of adequate to mediocre pitching, but show me where there's any good pitching

[Hangar18]

Mets rotation is PHONY

[fquaye14ten]

the mets rotation is no worse

they have just as many mediocre pitchers, but at least they have glavine

[fquaye14ten]

for instance, glavine had a better ERA in 06 than any pitcher on the Phillies

[fquaye14ten]

Mets rotation is PHONY

so is the Phillies's. That's the point.

Adam Eaton is no less reprehensible a signing (From a Hangar standpoint) than anything the Mets have done.

[Efilnikufesin]

for instance, glavine had a better ERA in 06 than any pitcher on the Phillies

And you expect him to do the same in 07?

[the fluffer]

the mets rotation is no worse

they have just as many mediocre pitchers, but at least they have glavine


I give up. Its like trying to explain Science to a Christian.

[the fluffer]

And you expect him to do the same in 07?

And you are arguing that Moyer is better than anyone the Mets have??

You've made our point for us, thanks!

[Bonzosa]

Perhaps you would like to join philly in the city?

[Bonzosa]

or,mets oh yes in the city

[Efilnikufesin]

And you are arguing that Moyer is better than anyone the Mets have??

You've made our point for us, thanks!


Please quote me where I said that..

[Efilnikufesin]

Perhaps you would like to join philly in the city?

And yes, this is gone off track.. I will start something up in MLB forum

[fquaye14ten]

And you expect him to do the same in 07?

Where do you expect anyone on the Phillies to have a similar or better season than 06? This is borderline retarded...good grief.

The Phillies have nowhere to go but down. Except for Myers and Hamel...but there's no reason to expect either of them to improve.

[the fluffer]

The Phillies have nowhere to go but down. Except for Myers and Hamel...but there's no reason to expect either of them to improve.

Yes, but Jamie Moyer, Jon Lieber and Adam Eaton are the cornerstones of any championship rotation.

[Efilnikufesin]

Yes, but Jamie Moyer, Jon Lieber and Adam Eaton are the cornerstones of any championship rotation.

And Oliver Perez, Orlando Herenandez are soooooo much better. :jagoff:

[Efilnikufesin]

Alright Lets get this back on track.. I feel that unless we get Floyd on track we are getting screwed.. I think Cooper has his work cut out for him this year.

[Lucifer]

the problem is waiting for the changeup to be EFFECTIVE.

Two pitches are enough to get by in spring training. They are not enough for a starter in a 30+ start regular season. If his changeup is ready to go, fine, but if not, start Floyd until he pitches his way out.

His change has been effective though. Thats whats helping him get more ground balls and a few K's yesterday. Scouts have even said that Danks Change is a plus pitch.

I do agree that I would prefer Floyd to pitch better and start as our 5th starter but if he cant get his shit together and Danks continues to pitch well then Danks should get the job.

[fquaye14ten]

we'll see. I don't put too much stock in ST stats...but if scouts are saying that his change is ready, he's the wave of the future. I'm alla bout danks for real

[JohnBasedowYoda]

If Danks' shit floats he's in.

[Myrtle]

If Danks' shit floats he's in.

I think when they said they wanted Sox discussion, they were looking for more than your one-liners. Stay out of this thread. :hello:

Ps. clear your damn PMs. Your inbox is full.

[CaptainBallz]

Ps. clear your damn PMs. Your inbox is full.

how many damn PM's are you chatty knobbers exchanging?

i'm holding steady with a solid 11...

[JohnBasedowYoda]

how many damn PM's are you chatty knobbers exchanging?

i'm holding steady with a solid 11...

I've been exchanging hate filled pms with Chips.

[JohnBasedowYoda]

I think when they said they wanted Sox discussion, they were looking for more than your one-liners. Stay out of this thread. :hello:

Ps. clear your damn PMs. Your inbox is full.



I say exactly what's needed. None of the Proust-ian garbage you cruds toss out.


Danks performs he's in.

[JohnBasedowYoda]

I've already emptied my box twice and currently have 48 stored. And my box can store 200 messages.

Which mod you sleeping with to get those numbers?

[CaptainBallz]

I've already emptied my box twice and currently have 48 stored. And my box can store 200 messages.

Now that's good box.

This last series of posts makes me feel inadequate and small.

But MY box has 11...

[JohnBasedowYoda]

Now that's good box.

This last series of posts makes me feel inadequate and small.

But MY box has 11...

You are not your pm-inbox count

[idseer]

haeger in a heartbeat.

[MeanFish]

haeger in a heartbeat.

I concur.

[Palehose13]

Johan Santana

[EvilleFan]

Not sure what this threads really about.

If it's about the Phillies v. Mets pitching staff. Then with the acquisition of Garcia and ?Eaton the phillies caught up exactly to the Mets, until that Pedro guy gets back from DL.

I think the Phillies did more to catch up offensively to the Mets this offseason and that and the growth of some other NL east teams will increase parity giving the Phillies a chance to make the playoffs. Far from a stone cold lock, but a better chance in 2007. No way the Mets win 97 in 2007.

If it is about the Garcia trade, then it is going to take some time to figure that out. I don't think they traded Garcia because of the velocity on his pitches. It was because of his 17 wins but he was who the Phillies wanted. If the Muts had acted first, it probably would have been Vazquez who was traded for pitching prospects. I think both Floyd and Gonzales will be pitching for us in the next two years. I also think that the Sox have as strong a string of pitching prospects as any team in the majors. KW did an excellent job this year of trading starters for prospects, and we still have 4 returning. Even if none of them pitch in the majors this year. I hope that, god forbid, we're out of it that he gets something as good for Buerhle, Crede, Dye and Iguchi if he has to.