Palestinian kindergarten graduation ceremony

[Erik The Red]

If brainwashing like this isn't child abuse, I don't know what is.

http://switch5.castup.net/frames/20041020_MemriTV_Popup/video_480x360.asp?ai=214&ar=1468wmv&ak=null

[StockdaleforVeep]

wow, an islamic school that wasnt overly blatant against jews

[jlew24asu]

the video wont load for me. is anyone having issues seeing it?

[StockdaleforVeep]

the video wont load for me. is anyone having issues seeing it?

it played automatically with my winamp for some reason :confused:

[Palehose13]

What's wrong with bumblebee's?

But seriously, that was disturbing. Religion is definitely a positive impact.

[StockdaleforVeep]

What's wrong with bumblebee's?

But seriously, that was disturbing. Religion is definitely a positive impact.

http://www.baseballreliquary.org/images/MotherTheresa.jpg
:rolleyes:

[jlew24asu]

it played automatically with my winamp for some reason :confused::shrug: I think I have a good idea of whats on it anyway. its sad.

[Erik The Red]

:shrug: I think I have a good idea of whats on it anyway. its sad.

At the end of the ceremony, the kindergarten boys start chanting fundamentalist garbage, like "Who is your role model? -- The Prophet!" and "What is your most lofty aspiration? -- Death for the sake of Allah!"

[CaptainBallz]

At the end of the ceremony, the kindergarten boys start chanting fundamentalist garbage, like "Who is your role model? -- The Prophet!" and "What is your most lofty aspiration? -- Death for the sake of Allah!"

"it's along way to the top if you wanna rock n' roll, kid..."

that's what I'd tell him..

[Prope]

"it's along way to the top if you wanna rock n' roll, kid..."

that's what I'd tell him..
I think you'd be an awesome kindergarten teacher in Palestine.

[Erik The Red]

Yeah, right before he was publicly beheaded for apostasy.

[Palehose13]

At the end of the ceremony, the kindergarten boys start chanting fundamentalist garbage, like "Who is your role model? -- The Prophet!" and "What is your most lofty aspiration? -- Death for the sake of Allah!"

Yeah, that was really bad. The mini boot camp was disturbing, but to have 6 years old yell that "death for the sake of Allah" is their most lofty aspiration:

:babyjesus:

[soxwon]

http://www.baseballreliquary.org/images/MotherTheresa.jpg
:rolleyes:

jamie farr?

[Palehose13]

jamie farr?

Hot damn!!! :rolling: :rolling: :rolling:

[gbergman]

Religion is definitely a positive impact.

Religion isn't the problem. It is people who take what is written and interpret it in their own way and they practice it over and over again to a point where they believe it to be true and then they go crazy.

If they would just practice what is written there wouldn't be any of these problems.

[Prope]

Religion isn't the problem. It is people who take what is written and interpret it in their own way and they practice it over and over again to a point where they believe it to be true and then they go crazy.

If they would just practice what is written there wouldn't be any of these problems.
Never thought I'd agree with gbergman.

[Palehose13]

Religion isn't the problem. It is people who take what is written and interpret it in their own way and they practice it over and over again to a point where they believe it to be true and then they go crazy.

If they would just practice what is written there wouldn't be any of these problems.


:confused:

So how do you picture the world if it was like your last sentence?

Never thought I'd agree with gbergman.

I'm surprised that you would. People created religions, therefore religious doctrine is what that group believes is the interpretation of "what is written" or what a higher power wants. Aren't some of the most violent people the ones who take what is written so literally.

I would imagine that territoy and religion are some of the top reasons two entities go to war.

[Prope]

I'm surprised that you would. People created religions, therefore religious doctrine is what that group believes is the interpretation of "what is written" or what a higher power wants. Aren't some of the most violent people the ones who take what is written so literally.

I would imagine that territory and religion are some of the top reasons two entities go to war.
I was referring to the Bible. Which now that I re-read gbergman's post he didn't mention that, but I still think that is what he is referring to.

Somebody once told me that, "Followers of God are the ones that give him the bad name." I think I butchered that, and I'm also not sure where he got that from.

[Palehose13]

I was referring to the Bible. Which now that I re-read gbergman's post he didn't mention that, but I still think that is what he is referring to.

Somebody once told me that, "Followers of God are the ones that give him the bad name." I think I butchered that, and I'm also not sure where he got that from.


I assumed that he meant the bible also. So...you think people who follow the bible literally are more "sane" than those who use it as a guide and interpret it?

[jlew24asu]

I made this thread on the other board I post on. some interesting discussion going on there


http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=246309

[Prope]

I assumed that he meant the bible also. So...you think people who follow the bible literally are more "sane" than those who use it as a guide and interpret it?
I think it is well known by now that you and I share some thoughts on many things.

I'm a little frazzled right now, 5 hours in 95 degree heat.

[Palehose13]

I think it is well known by now that you and I share some thoughts on many things.

I'm a little frazzled right now, 5 hours in 95 degree heat.

I was wondering what was going on with you. ;)

[Erik The Red]

Religion isn't the problem. It is people who take what is written and interpret it in their own way and they practice it over and over again to a point where they believe it to be true and then they go crazy.

If they would just practice what is written there wouldn't be any of these problems.

If people practiced what was written then they would own slaves, women would not be allowed to vote or have any say in the household, people would be stoned to death for working on Sunday, and it would be morally justifiable to offer your wife to a mob of sex crazed men who were pounding down your door demanding to sexually violate an angel who was visiting your household.

I for one am glad that christians don't practice what is written.

[gbergman]

I am refrencing the Bible. I am talking about the people who practice their religons in the way they were meant to. No where in the Bible does it say give your wife up to a sex craised crowd. Let an atheist ramble on and they pull shit out of their ass. I doubt you have read the Bible as stating something like that is just assinine.

I was talking about people who read eye for an eye as, you killed my camel so now I kill 3000 people.

The 7th or 6th commandment depending on if you are Jewish, Orthodox, Roman Catholic or Protestant is Thou shalt not commit adultery.

The Jews left Egypt to escape slavery because Slavery was wrong. That is what the whole Moses part of the Bible or Torrah is about. Slaves in the New Testament are just indentured servants or people who owed money or services and were able to pay off debts. Read Matthew 10:24-25, and Luke 12:37.

Women in the Bible read
Luke 1: 26-45
Luke 8: 1-3
John 4: 4-30,39-42
Luke 10: 38-42
Mathew 27:56-57, Mark 15:40-41
Acts 1:12-14, 9:36, 16:1418:24-26,21:7-9Romans 16:1-16

Jesus embraced women it was laws at that time forbade it.

Sunday was a day strictly set aside in those times and (now in Islamic culture) for the sabbath and worship. You do not see Christians stoning other christians for working because it is wrong. Jesus goes on to adress stoning in John 8:7 when he is the the street with the accused adulteress. " He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."

[Erik The Red]

I've read the bible... more than you it appears.

[gbergman]

You read the Bible: as an atheist should see it

[Erik The Red]

I've actually read the bible twice: once in my childhood when I was a believer, and once afterwards. Reading it the first time is one of the primary reasons I'm an atheist now.

If you can read it and suspend your disbelief and rationalize all the horrible shit that goes on in the name of religion, than congratulations. I, on the other hand, have a conscience.

[Dan Mega]

Lets not forget all the horrrible atrocities in the name of atheism.

Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Enver Hoxha- all atheist regimes who murdered hundreds of millions of religious folk with the ideology of creating a religion-free "utopia".

Now, I know I will get jumped on for claiming that Stalin and Mao were 1)atheist and/or 2)were carrying out their actions in the name of atheism, but I can defend my position pretty well with this one if someone wants to counter.

I think what alot of people need to realize is that just because some Christian/Muslim/Jew/Atheiest/etc does something terrible, doesn't mean the same kind of follower sitting next to you at the Sox game will.

[CaptainBallz]

sweet Refused sig, dan... :thumbsup:


my stance is that whatever your belief system is, atheism is the only one that belongs in any public sphere. It keeps the focus on issues that actually have relevance..

[Erik The Red]

Lets not forget all the horrrible atrocities in the name of atheism.

Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Enver Hoxha- all atheist regimes who murdered hundreds of millions of religious folk with the ideology of creating a religion-free "utopia".

Now, I know I will get jumped on for claiming that Stalin and Mao were 1)atheist and/or 2)were carrying out their actions in the name of atheism, but I can defend my position pretty well with this one if someone wants to counter.

All of these rulers were trying to create societies where the state had complete control. ANY type of dissent was crushed under their regimes. Religion was just one many things that was suppressed, so don't try to attach any special significance to it.

None of their acts were done in "in the name of atheism", and one would have to be either ignorant or intellectually dishonest to even try to claim that. On the other hand, an innumerable amount of people were tortured and killed by church-sanctioned witch hunts.

Stick to what you know, mmmkay?

[Prope]

All of these rulers were trying to create societies where the state had complete control. ANY type of dissent was crushed under their regimes. Religion was just one many things that was suppressed, so don't try to attach any special significance to it.

None of their acts were done in "in the name of atheism", and one would have to be either ignorant or intellectually dishonest to even try to claim that. On the other hand, an innumerable amount of people were tortured and killed by church-sanctioned witch hunts.

Stick to what you know, mmmkay?
My post would have been redundant. :shrug:

EDIT: :thumbsup: :badger:

[Dan Mega]

All of these rulers were trying to create societies where the state had complete control. ANY type of dissent was crushed under their regimes. Religion was just one many things that was suppressed, so don't try to attach any special significance to it.

None of their acts were done in "in the name of atheism", and one would have to be either ignorant or intellectually dishonest to even try to claim that. On the other hand, an innumerable amount of people were tortured and killed by church-sanctioned witch hunts.

Stick to what you know, mmmkay?

I've heard this "Statism" argument before. If this is your argument then you cannot attach names like Hitler to religious related atrocities, because I could then argue that Hitler was merely using religion as one of many side-pieces for their political opportunistic bullshit. Same argument can be applied to Bush as well. You cannot pick and choose which ones you want to be what or redefine history.

Regarding the sentence I bolded, if religion is being suppressed completely by guys like Mao, and Judaism is being surpressed by a supposedly Christian Hitler, how are these different?

[StockdaleforVeep]

I've actually read the bible twice: once in my childhood when I was a believer, and once afterwards. Reading it the first time is one of the primary reasons I'm an atheist now.

If you can read it and suspend your disbelief and rationalize all the horrible shit that goes on in the name of religion, than congratulations. I, on the other hand, have a conscience.

Horrible things have been done in the name of science and that was considered progress

[Dan Mega]

Horrible things have been done in the name of science and that was considered progress

How so?

Someone USING science to harm others is different.

[StockdaleforVeep]

All of these rulers were trying to create societies where the state had complete control. ANY type of dissent was crushed under their regimes. Religion was just one many things that was suppressed, so don't try to attach any special significance to it.

None of their acts were done in "in the name of atheism", and one would have to be either ignorant or intellectually dishonest to even try to claim that. On the other hand, an innumerable amount of people were tortured and killed by church-sanctioned witch hunts.

Stick to what you know, mmmkay?

So stalin nearly exterminating the russian orthodox church had nothing to do with atheism? Also lets mention how he outlawed certain religions too

Castro was an atheist but apparently hes coming back around now(well its not 100% proven but his actions then and now could be seen as it)

How so?

Someone USING science to harm others is different.

We wouldnt have as many medical advancements in pregnancy operations if not for Mengele and then theres the tuskeegee experiments

[Prope]

So stalin nearly exterminating the russian orthodox church had nothing to do with atheism? Also lets mention how he outlawed certain religions too

http://www.atheistsunited.org/wordsofwisdom/Nelson/communism.html

http://www.ronaldbrucemeyer.com/rants/1116almanac.htm

[StockdaleforVeep]

http://www.atheistsunited.org/wordsofwisdom/Nelson/communism.html

http://www.ronaldbrucemeyer.com/rants/1116almanac.htm

http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~wldciv/world_civ_reader/world_civ_reader_2/marx.html

"There are, besides, eternal truths, such as Freedom, Justice, etc., that are common to all states of society. But communism abolishes eternal truths, it abolishes all religion, and all morality, instead of constituting them on a new basis; it therefore acts in contradiction to all past historical experience."

[Prope]

http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~wldciv/world_civ_reader/world_civ_reader_2/marx.html

"There are, besides, eternal truths, such as Freedom, Justice, etc., that are common to all states of society. But communism abolishes eternal truths, it abolishes all religion, and all morality, instead of constituting them on a new basis; it therefore acts in contradiction to all past historical experience."
I'll agree communism (at least the Soviet variety - Cuba and China much different cases) are these things. The question though is about atheism. Which I would argue does not do those things.

[StockdaleforVeep]

I'll agree communism (at least the Soviet variety - Cuba and China much different cases) are these things. The question though is about atheism. Which I would argue does not do those things.

But stalin was an atheist

[Prope]

But stalin was an atheist
Was Atheism his influence in committing the purges? Or was it more to protect the state from dissident? So what if Stalin was an Atheist, so was Gorbachev and he returned some (a few) religious rights back to the Russian people.

[Erik The Red]

I honestly don't know how he does it, but again and again Stockdale states a point, and then puts forth 3 or 4 arguments that do nothing to support it. I can't help but wonder if A) it's intentional, or B) he's just dumb.

[StockdaleforVeep]

I honestly don't know how he does it, but again and again Stockdale states a point, and then puts forth 3 or 4 arguments that do nothing to support it. I can't help but wonder if A) it's intentional, or B) he's just dumb.

or c i got no place else to go

[Erik The Red]

I think it's just intentional, personally.