Sox, 7 others, tried to trade for ARod

[Soxoholic]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jon_heyman/03/02/arod.yankees/index.html?cnn=yes

[StockdaleforVeep]

:shrug:

We'll be fine without him.

http://images.tsn.ca/images/stories/20051214/everett-b_81414.jpg
"You cant win no world series without me and AROW.....sheeeeeeeet"

btw, type carl everett into google web, apparently he lives in washington...lol

edit-i know notice its arod, not rowand, but i stand by my schtick

[Lucifer]

ARod would be a nice addition to any team but I agree that we are just fine without him.

[BFC]

If A-Rod comes, you might as well close the door on any hope of re-signing Buehrle/Dye/Iguchi.

[oeo]

If A-Rod comes, you might as well close the door on any hope of re-signing Buehrle/Dye/Iguchi.

Well if A-Rod were to come here, we wouldn't need Dye anymore; and I could still see Iguchi being re-signed.

[1951Campbell]

Philadelphia Phillies
Potentially, the best infield ever if A-Rod were to join Howard, Utley and Rollins.

:omg:

I don't know about best ever, but pretty close.

[EvilleFan]

That would be an obscene amount of home runs. Have two infielders put up 50 for the same team in the same year? I'd guess no.

The Sox already put up an obscene number of homeruns.

[Bonzosa]

What the hell does a phone call mean?
Does it mean the Sox were really interested in acquiring him?
Or does it mean they tried to throw some crumbs at the Yankees for Arod?
It's a crap story, just trying to cash in on all the Arod sensationalism of the moment.
Seriously, Arod and Jeter are now the Brittney-K Fed of baseball.
Maybe SI wants to start writing gossip columns...

[MeanFish]

I highly doubt that we were trying to trade scraps for A-Rod. If you recall, we were a major suitor before he went to Texas in '00. As we all know, Kenny doesn't just forget guys. They could be on their way to retirement and Kenny would see that as an opportunity to finally get the guy he wanted.

We're admittedly weak at SS with a 3B in the wings. There's a better than good chance that the deal would look something like Crede and prospects (real ones, like perhaps a top pitching prospect, a mid-level minor league hitting prospect) for A-Rod (straight -- no cash back).

Of course we're a solid team without making that move, but we're probably a better team after making that move. And to be honest, with the attention that A-Rod brings to a team he makes his salary back by basically guaranteeing that every game this year is sold out.

[EvilleFan]

I hope that they trade him to the Cubs for Ramirez and 3 PTNLs.

[fquaye14ten]

i would love to have a-rod depending, of course, on who we'd have to give up for him

[fquaye14ten]

i guess. but i hear people talking as if trading for a-rod in and of itself is a badidea---or at least i did on wsi.

If we could give up position players and prospects for him. I mean, it would have to be something to consider on a trade by trade basis.

[Hangar18]

I hate to use the "Chemistry" thing here ......... but I think he would be a disruption. Besides, the NY papers have ARod being a cub next year ....

[oeo]

I hate to use the "Chemistry" thing here ......... but I think he would be a disruption. Besides, the NY papers have ARod being a cub next year ....

There's no way they can take on all of Soriano, Zambrano, and A-Rod (that's like over 60mil between three players). And if they pick A-Rod over Zambrano, it just proves their stupidity further.

I don't see why A-Rod would be a problem. He doesn't seem like a clubhouse disruption to me.

[Hangar18]

There's no way they can take on all of Soriano, Zambrano, and A-Rod. And if they pick A-Rod over Zambrano, it just proves their stupidity further.

I don't see why A-Rod would be a problem. He doesn't seem like a clubhouse disruption to me.


You forget one important thing. They PRINT MONEY over at Clark & Addison.
whether they want to spend it is another thing .............

[Bonzosa]

A-rod?
Do you really know people who have not bought Sox tickets yet but would if A-rod was here?
I sure as hell don't nor would I. The guy is a primadonna, not an accessible, likeable guy that the fans would be crazy about.
You want to sell tix? Have a Dice-K, Ichiro, Matsui etc on your team. Those guys insert a hot beef injection into the bottom line of the team in sales and tix.
That isn't what this is really about though, winning teams bring in more fans than one man can, at least now that Bonds is on the decline.
We need to win, so why would we bring A-rod and his contract here? He just happens to cost more than Crede, in case you didn't know.
We already have plenty of power on the team.
Boys, what we need...is speed.

[fquaye14ten]

A-rod?
Do you really know people who have not bought Sox tickets yet but would if A-rod was here?
I sure as hell don't nor would I. The guy is a primadonna, not an accessible, likeable guy that the fans would be crazy about.
You want to sell tix? Have a Dice-K, Ichiro, Matsui etc on your team. Those guys insert a hot beef injection into the bottom line of the team in sales and tix.
That isn't what this is really about though, winning teams bring in more fans than one man can, at least now that Bonds is on the decline.
We need to win, so why would we bring A-rod and his contract here? He just happens to cost more than Crede, in case you didn't know.
We already have plenty of power on the team.
Boys, what we need...is speed.

:rolleyes:

[Palehose13]

When you have a chance to get a guy the caliber of Arod (one of the best) you have to at least make a phone call.

A-rod?
Do you really know people who have not bought Sox tickets yet but would if A-rod was here?
I sure as hell don't nor would I. The guy is a primadonna, not an accessible, likeable guy that the fans would be crazy about.
You want to sell tix? Have a Dice-K, Ichiro, Matsui etc on your team. Those guys insert a hot beef injection into the bottom line of the team in sales and tix.
That isn't what this is really about though, winning teams bring in more fans than one man can, at least now that Bonds is on the decline.
We need to win, so why would we bring A-rod and his contract here? He just happens to cost more than Crede, in case you didn't know.
We already have plenty of power on the team.
Boys, what we need...is speed.

I agree with you that the Sox need more speed, but Arod has speed. He has stolen more bases than Uribe the past 3 years and he is a guy that has the abilty to first to third it. He's no Carl Crawford, but he can run.

[Efilnikufesin]

The Sox already put up an obscene number of homeruns.
Exactly.. give me someone who plays Great D, and can hit about .280 with alot of SB and knows how to move the runner over.

[Palehose13]

Exactly.. give me someone who plays Great D, and can hit about .280 with alot of SB and knows how to move the runner over.

Depending on how you define "a lot" of stolen bases, you just described Alex Rodriguez (at SS) except that he'll hit about .300. I'd say that on Ozzie's team he'd steal 20-30 bases.

[1951Campbell]

i guess. but i hear people talking as if trading for a-rod in and of itself is a badidea---or at least i did on wsi.



I would never say it's a bad idea in and of itself, but doesn't the turning into a pumpkin in the playoffs schtick, the weird need to be loved, and things like swattign the ball out of Arroyo's hand give you a little pause? He's creeping towards head-case land.

[Efilnikufesin]

Depending on how you define "a lot" of stolen bases, you just described Alex Rodriguez (at SS) except that he'll hit about .300. I'd say that on Ozzie's team he'd steal 20-30 bases.

Maybe if this was 2000.. He is not the SB threat he once was. He has gone down each of the past 3 years 28/21/15... He is now 31, he is loosing a step or two. And going to cost us at least 15mil a year.. NO thanks.

I would rather deal Joey Crede to Anaheim and get one of their stud SS prospects use the money to resign Mark.

[fquaye14ten]

I would never say it's a bad idea in and of itself, but doesn't the turning into a pumpkin in the playoffs schtick, the weird need to be loved, and things like swattign the ball out of Arroyo's hand give you a little pause? He's creeping towards head-case land.

turning into a pumpkin in the playoffs has been roundly disspelled by anyone who doesn't turn to espn for their daily titfeeding

the need to be loved? he doesn't need to be loved, he needs to

a.) not be called a "choker" when he is not in fact a choker

b.) not be sold out by the "captain" of his team only to have the captain turn around the next week to pledge his undying support to the watermelon-headed juice-baby who bitches about this and that

c.) not be booed by the completely classless ass bandits who populate yankee stadium

[Palehose13]

turning into a pumpkin in the playoffs has been roundly disspelled by anyone who doesn't turn to espn for their daily titfeeding

the need to be loved? he doesn't need to be loved, he needs to

a.) not be called a "choker" when he is not in fact a choker

b.) not be sold out by the "captain" of his team only to have the captain turn around the next week to pledge his undying support to the watermelon-headed juice-baby who bitches about this and that

c.) not be booed by the completely classless ass bandits who populate yankee stadium

BRAVO!

[fquaye14ten]

for the record:

http://www.firejoemorgan.com/2006/12/one-more-time-as-clear-as-i-can-make.html

[Palehose13]

for the record:

http://www.firejoemorgan.com/2006/12/one-more-time-as-clear-as-i-can-make.html

Jeter is an ass muncher.

[fquaye14ten]

yeah but to his credit it's some fine ass he munches. my favorite:

[Bonzosa]

OK, last post on this...
A-rod is and has been a great player. His value is not great and in coming years he will not earn the money he is due.
Arod- $27,000,000 for this year alone
Crede- $ 4,940,000 for this year
For 22 million more you get:
5 more HR's
15 SB
7 points better in BA
17 points better slugging
and 70 points better OBA

For 24.6 million dollars more. Why even consider it?
Screw Arod, there is no value there anymore, not for that price.
We don't even need a 3B, and they're not giving up Jeter.

What we do is trade/let Crede go and get a Figgins/Crawford type guy for SS and stick Fields at 3rd. Sweeney comes into the mix in OF. Spend the money you would have spent on Arod on a couple OF's (bye-bye Pods, BA, Erstad) and we are solid.
We already have Sweeney and Fields ready to step in at a bargain of a price and they look good.
We have two pitchers in the starting 5 whose contracts are coming to an end, and we go nowhere w/o pitching. Buerhle and Vazquez need to prove themselves this year to get paid, let's hope they do and then we pay them to stay a couple more years.

Summary of today's lesson:
1. Arod- not good value
2. We do not need/want Arod
3. Arod is a tool
4. We need SS/OF('s) for next year (on top of starting pitching, if we don't re-sign MB and JV)

[Palehose13]

OK, last post on this...
A-rod is and has been a great player. His value is not that great and in coming years he will not earn the money he is due.
Arod- $27,000,000 for this year alone
Crede- $ 4,940,000 for this year
For 22 million more you get:
ey ready to come in, let's see how Dye does this year and take it from ther5 more HR's
15 SB
7 points better in BA
17 points better slugging
and 70 points better OBA

For 24.6 million dollars more. Why even consider it?
We don't even need a 3B, and they're not giving up Jeter.

Screw Arod, there is no value there anymore, not for that price.

What we do is trade/let Crede go and get a Figgins/Crawford type guy for SS and stick Fields at 3rd. Spend the money you would have spent on Arod on a couple OF's and we are solid.
We already have Sweeney and Fields ready to step in at a bargain of a price and they look good.
We have two pitchers in the starting 5 whose contracts are coming to an end, and we go nowhere w/o pitching. Buerhle and Vazquez need to prove themselves this year to get paid, let's hope they do and then we pay them to stay a couple more years.

Summary of today's lesson:
1. Arod- not good value
2. We do not need/want Arod
3. Arod is a tool
4. We need SS/OF('s) for next year (on top of starting pitching, if we don't re-sign MB and JV)

Is he even due all that money from NY? Did Texas pick up some? I am also sure that NY would pick up some of his salary for a package that included someone like Crede or Fields.

[fquaye14ten]

ok...but like i said, it would depend on the situation. first of all a-rod's not coming here. duh. but if he did, he wouldn't be coming

a.) for prospects
or
b.) with us paying his entire salary.

Therefore it would be worthwhile to consider his value in terms of who we would have to give up and how much of his salary would be paid. Since it's completely hypothetical that we would even have a CHANCE to get a-rod, it's as hypothetical to say "he's not worth it". A-Rod is one of the three best players in the game when you consider the fact that he plays gold glove shortstop.

summary of your lessons:

1. A-rod's value is yet-to-be determined. To the Yankees it's high because his relative cost to him is similar to Jeter's and A-Rod's twice the player Jeter is. Torre's decision to play A-rod out of position is the problem, not A-rod

2. We do not need A-Rod? once again, depending on who we'd give up. However, to pretend A-Rod isn't a huge upgrade over Uribe is silly. Therefore in the strictest sense of the terms we DO need A-rod. Now, if A-rod would (once again hypothetically) come at the cost of Crede and a MLB pitcher, that would offset the benefits of A-Rod over Uribe, so in that case we would not need A-rod. We do not want A-rod? Well, buddy, it seems to me Kenny's exploration of trade options for A-Rod would point to the fact that we do seem to want A-rod. The question is availability and price, not whether our team would like him to play for us.

3. So you and ESPN say. Congratulations.

4. Well, A-Rod plays SS so in this very HYPOTHETICAL situation he would fill that need. OF is a difficult situation, but I'm confident one of our three young Outfielders will be able to hit passably come 08.

[fquaye14ten]

OK, last post on this...
A-rod is and has been a great player. His value is not great and in coming years he will not earn the money he is due.
Arod- $27,000,000 for this year alone
Crede- $ 4,940,000 for this year
For 22 million more you get:
5 more HR's
15 SB
7 points better in BA
17 points better slugging
and 70 points better OBA

For 24.6 million dollars more. Why even consider it?
Screw Arod, there is no value there anymore, not for that price.
We don't even need a 3B, and they're not giving up Jeter.


Also it seems to me you have A-Rod confused with a 3B. That's understandable, since the Yankees have an asinine organization, but my understanding is that A-Rod would play SS here since Kenny is not a moron and Ozzie is only slightly a moron.

[fquaye14ten]

and one final thing: even if it were a Crede for A-Rod deal, which seems plausible given how much A-Rod has fallen out of favor in the Bronx and how high Crede's stock seems to be, consider that it's not a matter of "A-rod's stats vs. Crede's" but a matter of "A-Rod's stats + Fields's stats vs. Crede's stats + Uribe's stats"....and I'm relatively confident that Fields can match, if not surpass Uribe's, offensively.

Nevertheless, it's not going to happen.

[Palehose13]

it's not a matter of "A-rod's stats vs. Crede's" but a matter of "A-Rod's stats + Fields's stats vs. Crede's stats + Uribe's stats"....and I'm relatively confident that Fields can match, if not surpass Uribe's, offensively.

This is exactly how I look at it and also believe that Arod+Fields >>>> Uribe+Crede. However, like you also said, it ain't happenin'

[Efilnikufesin]

Also it seems to me you have A-Rod confused with a 3B. That's understandable, since the Yankees have an asinine organization, but my understanding is that A-Rod would play SS here since Kenny is not a moron and Ozzie is only slightly a moron.

Yes, you are correct he would play SS.. even still is he worth giving up say Danks,Crede and Gio to get him? Plus his salary of 5-8mil you figure for this

[Bonzosa]

Okay, you sucked me back in to this mess that we agree will not happen.

I do agree Arod is a great player. Value is not there, and neither is some fairy god mother who will hand the Sox a chunk of Arod's salary so we can sign him. That's crazy. Brian Cashman is smart enough to take what the Rangers were willing to give up, but it does not mean he would do the same for the Sox. What would be the point of trading him? They, unlike the Rangers, can afford his salary.

I get the SS thing. Will his range at that position increase or decrease in the future? His fielding was down at 3B from his first year at the position. What does that mean? A bad year or have we seen his fielding peak? We don't know yet.
By the way, when was the last time you saw him play SS? I haven't seen it in years. He is bigger now than he used to be when he was a Mariner/Ranger. Do you think he still is a SS? At 6-3, 225lbs? That's a big boy.

This is not a Arod/Fields vs. Crede/Uribe type thing. Personally, I don't think we will see either of those combos next year, nor is it highly probable for either.

I am not saying he wouldn't be an upgrade to our current position players but the value is not there. Not remotely.

But if you told me that 15 million of his contract was to be covered and he could play SS with great range again, I would say yes.
Although, to be honest, I would rather have a high OBA and speed, than Arod.
I would rather pay for a Jose Reyes than an Arod.

What happened to the small ball we saw during the championship run?
How do we do it with more power guys in the lineup?

[Palehose13]

We saw over a 1 run dropoff in team ERA, so the instances of small ball being necessary also dropped off dramatically. The team didn't forget how to bunt and they didn't lose "heart" or anything like that. It's as simple as mediocre pitching.

QFBTMFT

[Efilnikufesin]

We saw over a 1 run dropoff in team ERA, so the instances of small ball being necessary also dropped off dramatically. The team didn't forget how to bunt and they didn't lose "heart" or anything like that. It's as simple as mediocre pitching.

The team forgot how to bunt and move runners over.. There was handful of games where small ball wins us big games last season..

I agree that the pitching sucked, but What did you expect, Jose was hurt, mark went into a Funk.. Jon was mediocre as always, Javier got off to a bad start, and Freddy Sweated his way to a decent season.

The bullpen is what killed us plain and simple, when we got a lead no one in that pen other then Jenks and Thorton could get anyone out for the first part of the season.

[1951Campbell]

turning into a pumpkin in the playoffs has been roundly disspelled by anyone who doesn't turn to espn for their daily titfeeding



Combined average for the last three playoff series he's been in:

.183

QED.

I know you probably spent hours in writers' workshops coming up with "roundly disspelled by anyone who doesn't turn to espn for their daily titfeeding," but I may just have a point, ya know?

Also, yes, Yankees fans need to stop booing him. But whether or not the booing is warranted doesn't change the fact that he's getting a little cuckoo, a little inside his own head too much.

[Bonzosa]

That's funny Campbell, but it's hard to laugh knowing you have green and yellow blood coarsing through your veins...

[Palehose13]

Combined average for the last three playoff series he's been in:

.183

QED.

I know you probably spent hours in writers' workshops coming up with "roundly disspelled by anyone who doesn't turn to espn for their daily titfeeding," but I may just have a point, ya know?


Yes, but before last year Frank Thomas sucked donkey balls in the playoffs too. The playoffs is such a small sample size that you can find numerous examples of heros who became goats and scrubs that became heros (see: Geoff Blum).

[1951Campbell]

The playoffs is such a small sample size that you can find numerous examples of heros who became goats and scrubs that became heros (see: Geoff Blum).

That's true, but fquaye seemed to be saying that turning into a pumpkin during the playoffs was not occuring, which it has every year starting with the ALCS in 2004. Is 60 ABs (the sample size I used) too small to judge? That's open to debate. I'll just throw in that in 67 ABs over the last three series, Jeter batted .313.

[Efilnikufesin]

Come on, this is a slugging team. Even in 05, there were times when we looked impotent trying to lay down a bunt or hit it on the ground. Pods has never been a good sac bunter, in fact he's pretty bad at it. It's all about the number of chances...in 05 we were tied or within a single run a lot more often. In 06, it was more common to find the team down by a three run homer.

We made it back to a slugging team ala 2004, We missed playing small ball al year. I love Jim Thome at the DH, but I miss Carla hitting the ball to the right side to move a runner to make a productive out. I recall a game in 05 against the O's Pods get on Iguchi moves him to 2nd and Carla drove him home with a single.. I want to see more of that. I don't want to see them hitting for the fences when a single will do just as well.

Even if the Sox are down by 3.. in the 4th, a run in the 5,6,7,8 wow we are now up by 1.. 1 run here 1 run there adds up..

[Palehose13]

That's true, but fquaye seemed to be saying that turning into a pumpkin during the playoffs was not occuring, which it has every year starting with the ALCS in 2004. Is 60 ABs (the sample size I used) too small to judge? That's open to debate. I'll just throw in that in 67 ABs over the last three series, Jeter batted .313.

Even though 60 AB's is probably more than most players, I still think it is a small sample size. Mostly because 60 AB's is equal to about 15 games. We both know that a few 3 for 4 games would put his average close to .300 as opposed to if he had 200 AB's it would only bump his average to just above the Mendoza line.

[Bonzosa]

Even if Pods wasn't a good sac bunter, we are getting a hell of a lot less production from him on the base paths and I don't see it getting better with the hammy problems.
Somebody needs to be able to steal bases, fuck with pitchers pitching out of the stretch, get triples instead of doubles and be a serious threat to score off two baggers by the power crew.
Otherwise, who are they driving in?
Speed produces more bases than just what shows up on paper. Teams have to throw ahead of the runner more, getting slower people into scoring position more often, pitchers have to pay more attention to the runner which does make a difference in an at bat and speed makes teams over-compensate in throws which causes more errors (Fielders don't have as long to gather the ball and throw in the infield etc.)
Speed increases the effectiveness of Konerko, Dye and Thome.

Every time Konerko, Dye and Thome hit a solo HR, it is a wasted 2/3 run opportunity. Without guys on base, you have to hit twice as many home runs to produce results.

[Bonzosa]

I saw Carl play last year and every at bat he was trying to crush the ball.
It looked like he was trying to be something he wasn't, and his AVG & OBP showed it.

[Efilnikufesin]

I liked that scenario as much as you did, but there's one major factor that facilitated that--Carl Everett was our DH. It's very rare to have middle of the order guys playing into the moving-the-guy-over game and it's very much the exception to the rule that we were able to win with it. That's over with and we don't want to go back there.

We won did we not with that type of player in there.. Now granted our pitching was much better in 05, people had career years that is for sure.. but 9/10 our pitchers on the road were pitching with a lead with in the first 2 innings of a game it seemed.

I don't like unproductive outs.. aka K's, pop ups.. They piss me off esp with men on.

[Efilnikufesin]

Pods OBP went from .351 to .330. A dropoff no doubt, but .330 is not abysmal for a leadoff hitter. In fact, the two combine to his career average.

Additionally, where did these wasted runs come from when Konerko, Dye, Crede and Pierzynski all drove in more runs than they did the year before?

We went back to the 04 formual for scoring runs.. Score 15 day 1 , 5 Day2 and 1 Day 3.. for a 7 run per game avg...

[Palehose13]

We went back to the 04 formual for scoring runs.. Score 15 day game 1 5 games 2 and 1 game 3.. for a 7 run per game avg...

We also had a lot of games where the offense needed to score a ton of runs. No one is going to lose because they are "scoring too many runs". The Sox lost because they were giving up too many runs.

[Efilnikufesin]

We also had a lot of games where the offense needed to score a ton of runs. No one is going to lose because they are "scoring too many runs". The Sox lost because they were giving up too many runs.

The Sox lost because they didn't score more runs than the other team...And casue they didn't have Brett Farve.

http://www.drdonnica.com/images/celeb_madden.jpg

Yes, there are going to be those games.. When you have the likes of Floydd and Garland on your team you are going to get those game.. and Mark,Jose and Javier are not going to be able to pitch gems every night. The point is, our offense went back into hitting a 3run HR with no one on base.. We failed to move runners over and bunt correctly.. Hell what you think this years ST camps been about? Doing the little things that are huge during a game..

[Bonzosa]

Pods OBP went from .351 to .330. A dropoff no doubt, but .330 is not abysmal for a leadoff hitter. In fact, the two combine to his career average.

Additionally, where did these wasted runs come from when Konerko, Dye, Crede and Pierzynski all drove in more runs than they did the year before?

Good point indeed.
Although the stats tell a story.
First AJ and Pauly played more games and had a modest increase in run production.

I attribute the increased production to two core reasons...
Dye and Thome. Not Pods. In fact Iguchi was much more productive in 06 with 97 runs compared to 74 the year before.
But Dye and Thome created a lot of runs simply by being a threat to go deep.
Dye had 20 more walks than '05 (and a career year to boot) and Thome had 107 walks. He was no Carl Everett.
There are the runs. Power did produce more, but adding speed on top will add another dimension to this team and help the big boys drive in more.

[Palehose13]

The Sox lost because they didn't score more runs than the other team...And cause they didn't have Brett Farve.

http://www.drdonnica.com/images/celeb_madden.jpg


Love it.

[fquaye14ten]

Combined average for the last three playoff series he's been in:

.183

QED.

I know you probably spent hours in writers' workshops coming up with "roundly disspelled by anyone who doesn't turn to espn for their daily titfeeding," but I may just have a point, ya know?

Also, yes, Yankees fans need to stop booing him. But whether or not the booing is warranted doesn't change the fact that he's getting a little cuckoo, a little inside his own head too much.
questions:

what's jeter's average in the last three playoff series he's been in? (.313)
how many more hits than a-rod does that translate to? (10 whole hits)
what's a-rod's career postseason average? (.280)
how many hr did a-rod have in last 3 playoff series (2)
how many hr did jeter have in last 3 playoff series (3)
what is the definition of a small sample size? (last 3 playoff series)
what is the definition of an adequate sample size? (postseason career stats)

[fquaye14ten]

Yes, you are correct he would play SS.. even still is he worth giving up say Danks,Crede and Gio to get him? Plus his salary of 5-8mil you figure for this

absolutely no he is not. But Crede and Gio for A-Rod and cash? I don't know, maybe.....

Either way it's not happening, but to act like A-rod's not an incredible player is silly and I see a lot of that here.

[fquaye14ten]

Uribe and Crede defensively is a lot better than the other pair.

Not really.

A-rod is a better SS than Uribe using most metrics.

Admittedly Crede is a lot better than Fields, but SS is a much more important defensive position, so it more or less evens out.

[fquaye14ten]

Uribe and Crede defensively is a lot better than the other pair. And offense wasn't the problem in 06. I think it would be a downgrade in the scope of things, plus it would hamper our payroll. Sure, the Arod/Fields combo would produce better numbers, but it wouldn't mean shit unless we got 05 caliber pitching or reasonably close to it. Teams that have had Arod have shown exactly what I'm talking about.

Seattle with Arod had mediocre pitching, then got rid of him, got better pitching, a great leadoff man and won 116 games

Texas remained the same slugging, one dimensional team we all know and love during the Arod era.

New York had a dynasty and has yet to win it all with Arod and I don't see them winning one until they retool.

Of course none of that is Arod's fault. He's a 1st ballot HOFer. But those three teams he played for were all built on mashing the ball and run of the mill pitching and they didn't win anything.

Now, would we have won it all in 05 with Arod? Of course...we probably would have swept the playoffs, but a player with his salary is not needed or wanted on an already formidable offensive club--especially not one with a limited payroll.

We have our pitching this year. We're not improving our pitching by spending, so what does it matter. You named three teams A-Rod was on who had mediocre to lousy pitching.

We may or not have good pitching right now, but in the future salary isn't going to determine whether we have good or great pitching except so far as resigning buehrle. And anyway how does that effect this year?

Way I look at it, either our pitching is going to be good or not. A-Rod on the team doesn't effect that. If we DO have bad pitching again, we'll certainly need to be able to mash to make up for it, no matter how many runs we scored last year.

Anyway, it ain't happening.

[fquaye14ten]

What happened to the small ball we saw during the championship run?
How do we do it with more power guys in the lineup?

What happened to small ball?The media stopped talking about it because we didn't win anything last year.

Yeah we fucked up on bunting and stealing a lot this past year, but with the exception of a healthy Podsednik in 05, there wasn't much better bunting and stealing. We fucked up a lot last year too. You just noticed us succeeding a lot in 05 because our pitchers kept us in games.

[fquaye14ten]

That's true, but fquaye seemed to be saying that turning into a pumpkin during the playoffs was not occuring, which it has every year starting with the ALCS in 2004. Is 60 ABs (the sample size I used) too small to judge? That's open to debate. I'll just throw in that in 67 ABs over the last three series, Jeter batted .313.

which is ten more hits

want me to quote bull durham on you here?

[fquaye14ten]

We also had a lot of games where the offense needed to score a ton of runs. No one is going to lose because they are "scoring too many runs". The Sox lost because they were giving up too many runs.

Actually there were people on wsi who claimed the WS pitching was so bad because Thome's power made them lazy---apparently they TRIED to give up runs b/c they knew Thome would bail them out

[Palehose13]

Actually there were people on wsi who claimed the WS pitching was so bad because Thome's power made them lazy---apparently they TRIED to give up runs b/c they knew Thome would bail them out

Dood...multi-quote is yer friend.

[fquaye14ten]

i am padding my P. C.

[Palehose13]

i am padding my P. C.

So what the hell is glower power?

[fquaye14ten]

it is something your flower power is not match for



but seriously google is your friend

[Palehose13]

but seriously google is your friend

Meh.

[1951Campbell]

questions:

what is the definition of a small sample size? (last 3 playoff series)
what is the definition of an adequate sample size? (postseason career stats)

My argument was that A-Rod was becoming a head case, and I cited the last three post-season series for that. No one's saying he didn't rock nuts before that.

Then again, if the Sox had a player who was paid that much and of whom similar things were expected, you'd be perfectly fine with .183 over three consecutive playoff years, yessiree. Small sample space. Just drop him to 8th in the order any everything will be juuuust fine. There would be no gnashing of teeth. :rolleyes:

[1951Campbell]

i am padding my P. C.

^Obvious










+1

[fquaye14ten]

My argument was that A-Rod was becoming a head case, and I cited the last three post-season series for that. No one's saying he didn't rock nuts before that.

Then again, if the Sox had a player who was paid that much and of whom similar things were expected, you'd be perfectly fine with .183 over three consecutive playoff years, yessiree. Small sample space. Just drop him to 8th in the order any everything will be juuuust fine. There would be no gnashing of teeth. :rolleyes:

If the White Sox were in the playoffs every year...and Paul Konerko had 3 not so good playoff series, that would make him a choker? Especially if the rest of his career indicated otherwise?

Yes it seems to trend toward A-Rod getting worse in the postseason, but the last two postseason skew that largely---he wasn't all that bad vs. Boston, and furthermore, he faced some pretty good pitching in his last 2 serieses

[1951Campbell]

If the White Sox were in the playoffs every year...and Paul Konerko had 3 not so good playoff series, that would make him a choker? Especially if the rest of his career indicated otherwise?



Not a choker, just one who turns into a pumpkin come October.

Just tryin' to be clear, that's all.

[Efilnikufesin]

absolutely no he is not. But Crede and Gio for A-Rod and cash? I don't know, maybe.....

Either way it's not happening, but to act like A-rod's not an incredible player is silly and I see a lot of that here.

Yes, A-rod is.. For your Fantasy team.. Not your baseball team. He puts up great overall numbers just not when it matters.. Give me Crede any day of the week and Uribe at SS. over Fields and A-rod.

AS for your deal.. Yankees got a shitload for Sheffield, what you think they are going to want for the 2nd best player in the AL?

[Lucifer]

Yes it seems to trend toward A-Rod getting worse in the postseason, but the last two postseason skew that largely---he wasn't all that bad vs. Boston, and furthermore, he faced some pretty good pitching in his last 2 serieses

ARod never has been good in the playoffs. Thats just his MO. Yes he faced good pitching just like everyone else. He's a ball player and when you make the kind of money he makes people expect you to perform especially in the playoffs cause thats what its all about.

Cream rises to the top and shit sinks. I think we can all do the math on this one.
:fuckyeah:

[fquaye14ten]

ARod never has been good in the playoffs. Thats just his MO. Yes he faced good pitching just like everyone else. He's a ball player and when you make the kind of money he makes people expect you to perform especially in the playoffs cause thats what its all about.

Cream rises to the top and shit sinks. I think we can all do the math on this one.
:fuckyeah:

what? A-Rod has a .280 average in the playoffs, and that includes his 3 "catastrophic" series wherein he hit .180

[fquaye14ten]

Not a choker, just one who turns into a pumpkin come October.

Just tryin' to be clear, that's all.

ALEX RODRIGUEZ HAS A .280 CAREER PLAYOFF AVERAGE

That INCLUDES those three horrible playoff series you harp on (by far the worst in his careers)