James Cameron Find Jesus. Literally.

[Unregistered]

The "Lost Tomb" of Jesus (Sorry Christians) and Mary (Sorry Catholics) and their SON (sorry... everybody) were apparently found by Cameron in Jerusalem.

It's obviously being debated ad-naseum, so we'll hear plenty of bullshit about this for a while.

Don't worry, though - regardless of whether or not it's true, the Christian movement will bring its media strongarm into play and a dozen debunking programs will be produced calling Cameron every name in the book. Just a guess...

James Cameron Finds Jesus (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17328478/site/newsweek/)

[cbotnyse]

I wonder if Cameron wants to make money off this story. :shrug:

[Unregistered]

I wonder if Cameron wants to make money off this story. :shrug:

Making a movie that grossed $1,835,400,000 probably doesn't pay what it used to. :jagoff: ;)

[Sir Realist]

The "Lost Tomb" of Jesus (Sorry Christians) and Mary (Sorry Catholics) and their SON (sorry... everybody) were apparently found by Cameron in Jerusalem.

It's obviously being debated ad-naseum, so we'll hear plenty of bullshit about this for a while.

Don't worry, though - regardless of whether or not it's true, the Christian movement will bring its media strongarm into play and a dozen debunking programs will be produced calling Cameron every name in the book. Just a guess...

James Cameron Finds Jesus (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17328478/site/newsweek/)

Kick ass! I love early Christian related archeology. This should be fun.

[Palehose13]

So Easter isn't real? :shrug:

[1951Campbell]

I wonder if Cameron wants to make money off this story. :shrug:

Bingo! :thumbsup:

[cbotnyse]

Making a movie that grossed $1,835,400,000 probably doesn't pay what it used to. :jagoff: ;)It sucks because I was really interested in this story when I heard about it this morning, then I hear Cameron is involved. :rolleyes: I have an idea, lets keep Hollywood out of it and keep the professional archiologits on it.

[Unregistered]

So Easter isn't real? :shrug:

The Easter Bunny is in the hearts and minds of every boy and girl.

http://www.chappellfarms.ca/images/bunny_deep_knee_bends_sm_wht.gif http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/4637/hasieierwerferea8.gif

[1951Campbell]

It sucks because I was really interested in this story when I heard about it this morning, then I hear Cameron is involved. :rolleyes: I have an idea, lets keep Hollywood out of it and keep the professional archiologits on it.


Yeah, 2,000 years of searching for this kind of thing and the Titanic motherfucker finds it? Puppet, please.

[Unregistered]

It sucks because I was really interested in this story when I heard about it this morning, then I hear Cameron is involved. :rolleyes: I have an idea, lets keep Hollywood out of it and keep the professional archiologits on it.

Yeah - Cameron's gonna be way in over his head.

I'm with Realist, though - it's always interesting seeing stuff like this. Should be a good watch...

[samram]

I wonder if Cameron gets it worse than Dan Brown did.

[fquaye14ten]

Yeah, 2,000 years of searching for this kind of thing and the Titanic motherfucker finds it? Puppet, please.

read the article. he's just making a film about it

[Unregistered]

Yeah, 2,000 years of searching for this kind of thing and the Titanic motherfucker finds it? Puppet, please.

Apparently they found it like 25 years ago.

But "Tova Bracha" just doesn't have the same ring as "TITanic's James Cameron," I guess. :shrug:

[TeeDeeGee]

Damn, AICN was talking about this last night...I was waiting for the official story to break so I could come up with some kind of clever thread title...
Oh well

So seeing as how Christianity has now been "proven" wrong, I will now worship Primus, God of all the Transformers.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/db/Primus_head.jpg/180px-Primus_head.jpg
I, TDG, hereby renounce Unicron and all of his wicked ways

(For those keeping score, first time I've referenced Transformers on the new board. :thumbsup: )

[samram]

*updates spreadsheet*

[StockdaleforVeep]

The "Lost Tomb" of Jesus (Sorry Christians) and Mary (Sorry Catholics) and their SON (sorry... everybody) were apparently found by Cameron in Jerusalem.

It's obviously being debated ad-naseum, so we'll hear plenty of bullshit about this for a while.

Don't worry, though - regardless of whether or not it's true, the Christian movement will bring its media strongarm into play and a dozen debunking programs will be produced calling Cameron every name in the book. Just a guess...

James Cameron Finds Jesus (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17328478/site/newsweek/)

Cameron probably forgot in the latin alphabet, Jehova starts with an I

[Joosh]

I'm excited to see where this leads to. Its early on in a discovery that could change our world. Around 3 billion people today worship some form of Christianity, and if this discovery is proven true, it will forever label Christianity as a philosophy, and not a religion.

According to what I read, the "remains" of Jesus were reburied when the tomb was found back in the 80s. I wonder if those remains will ever be found.

And I wonder if they can tell from looking at the bones whether Mary's hymen was intact before the birth. :shrug:

In short, Christianity can :jagoff:

[Sir Realist]

I'm excited to see where this leads to. Its early on in a discovery that could change our world. Around 3 billion people today worship some form of Christianity, and if this discovery is proven true, it will forever label Christianity as a philosophy, and not a religion.

According to what I read, the "remains" of Jesus were reburied when the tomb was found back in the 80s. I wonder if those remains will ever be found.

And I wonder if they can tell from looking at the bones whether Mary's hymen was intact before the birth. :shrug:

In short, Christianity can :jagoff:

Wow. That is one of the most short sighted and shallowest posts I've ever read in my life. :eek:

[Joosh]

Wow. That is one of the most short sighted and shallowest posts I've ever read in my life. :eek:

Actually, its called an opinion.

[Sir Realist]

Actually, its called an opinion.

I stand corrected.

Wow. That is one of the most short sighted and shallowest opinions I've ever read in my life. :eek:

[Joosh]

I stand corrected.

Wow. That is one of the most short sighted and shallowest opinions I've ever read in my life. :eek:

OR, we all don't have to believe in the biggest crock of shit story I've ever been told since the "tooth fairy" used to visit me in my sleep.

[1951Campbell]

read the article. he's just making a film about it

No shit, Sherlock! Re-calibrate your joke detector, Daver!

:D

[TeeDeeGee]

OR, we all don't have to believe in the biggest crock of shit story I've ever been told since the "tooth fairy" used to visit me in my sleep.
OR, and I'm just playing Devil's advocate here, maybe some people actually DO believe in that "crock of shit" and you're just bashing their opinions now.
;)

[Joosh]

OR, and I'm just playing Devil's advocate here, maybe some people actually DO believe in that "crock of shit" and you're just bashing their opinions now.
;)

Hey, I really have no problems with religion, and if its what makes people happy, they should do it.

I just didn't appreciate having it shoved down my throat all my life.

EDIT: What I mean is, as long as it doesn't have to affect me, I don't really care.

[Sir Realist]

OR, we all don't have to believe in the biggest crock of shit story I've ever been told since the "tooth fairy" used to visit me in my sleep.

You really need to read some of Joseph Campbell's work. You are so far off base with your off handed dismissal of Christian mythology, it's scarey.

You can start with this (http://www.amazon.com/Hero-Thousand-Faces-Mythos-Books/dp/0691017840/sr=8-2/qid=1172549972/ref=pd_bbs_2/103-2448393-0083029?ie=UTF8&s=books) book.

[TeeDeeGee]

Hey, I really have no problems with religion, and if its what makes people happy, they should do it.

I just didn't appreciate having it shoved down my throat all my life.

EDIT: What I mean is, as long as it doesn't have to affect me, I don't really care.
You said that Christianity was "The biggest crock of shit story you have ever been told".

Sorry, that sounds to me like you've got a problem with it. :shrug:

This follow up post, with the edit, sounds like you're just doing some damage control. It's tone is contradicting your previous ones.

You're first two were strongly anti-Christian, at least that's how I saw it.

[Palehose13]

You said that Christianity was "The biggest crock of shit story you have ever been told".

Sorry, that sounds to me like you've got a problem with it. :shrug:

This follow up post, with the edit, sounds like you're just doing some damage control. It's tone is contradicting your previous ones.

You're first two were strongly anti-Christian, at least that's how I saw it.

I have no problem with Christians or any other religion. I have a problem with people pushing it on me and/or acting like I'm the freak because I don't buy into the idea of believing something absolutely when there is no proof. I have a feeling that the latter may be the source of Joosh's bitterness because sometimes when those pushy people won't leave me alone I lash out at them also.

[Joosh]

You said that Christianity was "The biggest crock of shit story you have ever been told".

Sorry, that sounds to me like you've got a problem with it. :shrug:

This follow up post, with the edit, sounds like you're just doing some damage control. It's tone is contradicting your previous ones.

You're first two were strongly anti-Christian, at least that's how I saw it.

I'm anti-Christian because of the way I was raised. I was forced to go to church, yet was never taught anything about what I was supposed to believe in. I was never baptized, yet my Father constantly made me attend services but didn't bother to integrate me within the culture or bother to teach me anything about it. I felt as if it was shoved down my throat and I had no say as to how I felt and how I do feel. I was just supposed to believe, but yet I was viewed as a sinner in the eyes of the church.

So, while I have no problem with people believing what they want, they don't have any right to shove it down my throat. And maybe I reacted badly here and did that to you all, but its been done to me my whole life. You can believe what you will, I just don't want your beliefs to be my problem, or to be called a sinner when I wasn't taught anything about Christianity. Everything I know about it is self-taught. And thats how I made my decision to believe the way I do, putting me somewhere between an Athiest and Agnostic.

[TeeDeeGee]

I have no problem with Christians or any other religion. I have a problem with people pushing it on me and/or acting like I'm the freak because I don't buy into the idea of believing something absolutely when there is no proof. I have a feeling that the latter may be the source of Joosh's bitterness because sometimes when those pushy people won't leave me alone I lash out at them also.
Yeah, I got it.
I just didn't like his tone.
:rant:
;)

[Palehose13]

Yeah, I got it.
I just didn't like his tone.
:rant:
;)

Then don't be some lame Mr. fruity pants.

[TeeDeeGee]

Then don't be some lame Mr. fruity pants.
Those are some harsh words, breeder. :whistle:

[Sir Realist]

In short, Christianity can :jagoff:

Hey, I really have no problems with religion...

Wow... and I thought fundamentalist Christians were outta their minds. You actually kinda make them look sane. :confused:

[Palehose13]

Those are some harsh words, breeder. :whistle:

:thumbsup: Fine job.

[Joosh]

Wow... and I thought fundamentalist Christians were outta their minds. You actually kinda make them look sane. :confused:

OR, you could read my post on the 3rd page. I don't have any problems with religion UNTIL I'm forced to believe it. Thats when it pisses me off.

[Sir Realist]

OR, you could read my post on the 3rd page. I don't have any problems with religion UNTIL I'm forced to believe it. Thats when it pisses me off.

Yeah yeah... I get it. Your daddy forced you to go to church when you didn't want to and now you hate Christianity.

I kinda figured that much out when I read your first post on the subject in this thread without you needing to explain it. Your shallow and reactionary stance towards western Christianity is not something new, and your knee jerk response to it is very cliche.

[SoxFan76]

OR, you could read my post on the 3rd page. I don't have any problems with religion UNTIL I'm forced to believe it. Thats when it pisses me off.

It's one thing to have an opinion, but it's another to tell somebody their beliefs are a crock of shit.

It is not easy to offend me, wait...let me make this clear, it's next to IMPOSSIBLE to offend me, and I was offended.

[Joosh]

It's one thing to have an opinion, but it's another to tell somebody their beliefs are a crock of shit.

It is not easy to offend me, wait...let me make this clear, it's next to IMPOSSIBLE to offend me, and I was offended.

Well, then I sincerely apologize that I offended you.




And I mean it, too.

[Sir Realist]

It's one thing to have an opinion, but it's another to tell somebody their beliefs are a crock of shit.

It is not easy to offend me, wait...let me make this clear, it's next to IMPOSSIBLE to offend me, and I was offended.

I wasn't offended because someone was telling me my beliefs are a crock of shit. My faith is far too strong to let an unbeliever offend me.

I was more offended by the fact that someone with opposable thumbs could make such a shallow blanket statement that completely dismisses a mythology that plays such an important and integral position in this nation's zeitgeist.

I felt the same way about such knee jerk reactions to Christianity even back when I was an atheist. It's just plain stupid.

[SoxFan76]

Well, then I sincerely apologize that I offended you.




And I mean it, too.

Don't apologize, that just means it was your purposeful intent (Kittle, back me up, I used those big words correctly, right?!) to offend someone.


Like my freshman baseball coach always said, don't apologize, that just means you did it on purpose. Which is basically what I just said above, so I don't know why I repeated myself.

[SoxFan76]

Well, I'm never apologizing to anyone ever again. Thanks.

:D

I'm just making sure he doesn't get off the hook THAT easily. Sometimes you gotta learn that there's stuff you shouldn't say. Even on a board as class-less as this one.

:thumbsup:

[Joosh]

:D

I'm just making sure he doesn't get off the hook THAT easily. Sometimes you gotta learn that there's stuff you shouldn't say. Even on a board as class-less as this one.

:thumbsup:

Well, fine, then I'm not sorry.

Stuff I shouldn't say??? What gives you the right to tell me what I'm allowed to say. Just because I don't believe in Christianity and get a little upset when people shove it down my throat doesn't give you the right to decide what I should and shouldn't say. Its called freedom of speech.

[Sir Realist]

:D

I'm just making sure he doesn't get off the hook THAT easily. Sometimes you gotta learn that there's stuff you shouldn't say. Even on a board as class-less as this one.

:thumbsup:

I suppose anybody can say anything they want. They just have to face up to the consequences (http://www.joosh.justgotowned.com/) for any serious missteps. ;)

[Joosh]

I suppose anybody can say anything they want. They just have to face up to the consequences (http://www.joosh.justgotowned.com/) for any serious missteps. ;)

Wow, very original of you.

And what consequences? Nothing in my life has changed.

[Sir Realist]

Holy fuck! Posts 45 and 46 are so similar I'm frightened. :eek:

[SoxFan76]

Well, fine, then I'm not sorry.

Stuff I shouldn't say??? What gives you the right to tell me what I'm allowed to say. Just because I don't believe in Christianity and get a little upset when people shove it down my throat doesn't give you the right to decide what I should and shouldn't say. Its called freedom of speech.

First of all, I don't really believe we have freedom of speech. However, you're right. You should be allowed to say whatever you want.

But going out and saying ridiculous things knowing you might really offend somebody all in the name of freedom of speech, well you need to get your priorities straight.

And I don't recall anyone HERE shoving Christianity down your throat, I sure won't. We're all free to believe what we wish. However, I don't blame you for saying that if you're referring to the Bible thumpers on the "outside". They're fucking nuts and give Christians a bad name.

And lastly, you are way too touchy.

[Joosh]

And I don't recall anyone HERE shoving Christianity down your throat, I sure won't. We're all free to believe what we wish. However, I don't blame you for saying that if you're referring to the Bible thumpers on the "outside". They're fucking nuts and give Christians a bad name.

And lastly, you are way too touchy.

Well, I've been having various members of my family and other people aswell. I just get tired of it.

I know I'm way too touchy. I have one short fucking fuse and that I AM sorry about.

[Sir Realist]

First of all, I don't really believe we have freedom of speech. However, you're right. You should be allowed to say whatever you want.

But going out and saying ridiculous things knowing you might really offend somebody all in the name of freedom of speech, well you need to get your priorities straight.

And I don't recall anyone HERE shoving Christianity down your throat, I sure won't. We're all free to believe what we wish. However, I don't blame you for saying that if you're referring to the Bible thumpers on the "outside". They're fucking nuts and give Christians a bad name.

And lastly, you are way too touchy.

Have you ever noticed how whenever a member of the so-called Religious Right catches even a glimpse of something that may refer to homosexuality they claim they're having homosexuality shoved down their throat, and they feel the need to tell the world how wrong homosexuality is?

Atheists often have the exact same reaction whenever Christianity is mentioned. Case and point - Joosh's initial post in this thread.

Yet another reason I consider religious fundamentalists and atheists to be 2 sides of the same miserable coin.

[fquaye14ten]

No shit, Sherlock! Re-calibrate your joke detector, Daver!

:D

you should know by now i don't have a sense of humor

[SABRSox]

You really need to read some of Joseph Campbell's work. You are so far off base with your off handed dismissal of Christian mythology, it's scarey.

You can start with this (http://www.amazon.com/Hero-Thousand-Faces-Mythos-Books/dp/0691017840/sr=8-2/qid=1172549972/ref=pd_bbs_2/103-2448393-0083029?ie=UTF8&s=books) book.

The blueprint to all mega-blockbuster movies. Have a copy sitting on my bookshelf.

[fquaye14ten]

OR, you could read my post on the 3rd page. I don't have any problems with religion UNTIL I'm forced to believe it. Thats when it pisses me off.

you really need to make it so your pages display more than 10 posts

:rolleyes: :jagoff: :rolleyes:

[fquaye14ten]

:D

I'm just making sure he doesn't get off the hook THAT easily. Sometimes you gotta learn that there's stuff you shouldn't say. Even on a board as class-less as this one.

:thumbsup:

eh you guys need to unbunch your panties.

if you're a christian, why would you care if a non christian said christianity can go:jagoff:


it's an underinformed statement here, but it's not the most underinformed statement on the board. shit, go look at sfv's posts in the anarchy thread.

[SABRSox]

It amazes me why so many people never change that. Ten posts per page drives me nuts.

It's probably the thing I like best about here over WSJ.

[fquaye14ten]

It's probably the thing I like best about here over WSJ.

http://www.humanesocietyyukon.ca/images/bingo.gif

[SABRSox]

Jeez, it doesn't take much to please you. What about the layout? The countless features? Nothing?

No. Just the 40 posts per page.

Best part about WSJ over SATC: no Chips. :cool:

[fquaye14ten]

No. Just the 40 posts per page.

Best part about WSJ over SATC: no Chips. :cool:

um dude i hate to break it to you but i would often munch on tato skins while posting

[SABRSox]

um dude i hate to break it to you but i would often munch on tato skins while posting

I thought they stopped making those, but it turns out they are now marketed under the TGI Friday's moniker. I might have to pick some up.

[fquaye14ten]

I thought they stopped making those, but it turns out they are now marketed under the TGI Friday's moniker. I might have to pick some up.

i could have told you that. after all, i used to munch on tato skins while posting

[SABRSox]

i could have told you that. after all, i used to munch on tato skins while posting

If we value the pursuit of knowledge, we must be free to follow wherever that search may lead us. The free mind is not a barking dog, to be tethered on a ten-foot chain.

Think about it...

[StockdaleforVeep]

OR, we all don't have to believe in the biggest crock of shit story I've ever been told since the "tooth fairy" used to visit me in my sleep.

prove it

[StockdaleforVeep]

I'm anti-Christian because of the way I was raised. I was forced to go to church, yet was never taught anything about what I was supposed to believe in. I was never baptized, yet my Father constantly made me attend services but didn't bother to integrate me within the culture or bother to teach me anything about it. I felt as if it was shoved down my throat and I had no say as to how I felt and how I do feel. I was just supposed to believe, but yet I was viewed as a sinner in the eyes of the church.

So, while I have no problem with people believing what they want, they don't have any right to shove it down my throat. And maybe I reacted badly here and did that to you all, but its been done to me my whole life. You can believe what you will, I just don't want your beliefs to be my problem, or to be called a sinner when I wasn't taught anything about Christianity. Everything I know about it is self-taught. And thats how I made my decision to believe the way I do, putting me somewhere between an Athiest and Agnostic.

and yet you shove your hatred of Christianity down everyone elses throats

[StockdaleforVeep]

Well, fine, then I'm not sorry.

Stuff I shouldn't say??? What gives you the right to tell me what I'm allowed to say. Just because I don't believe in Christianity and get a little upset when people shove it down my throat doesn't give you the right to decide what I should and shouldn't say. Its called freedom of speech.

and you have the freedom to sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up

[StockdaleforVeep]

I suppose anybody can say anything they want. They just have to face up to the consequences (http://www.joosh.justgotowned.com/) for any serious missteps. ;)


LINK OF THE CENTURY! :thumbsup:

[Palehose13]

Have you ever noticed how whenever a member of the so-called Religious Right catches even a glimpse of something that may refer to homosexuality they claim they're having homosexuality shoved down their throat, and they feel the need to tell the world how wrong homosexuality is?

Atheists often have the exact same reaction whenever Christianity is mentioned. Case and point - Joosh's initial post in this thread.

Yet another reason I consider religious fundamentalists and atheists to be 2 sides of the same miserable coin.

I was under the impression that you didn't like generalizations.

prove it
Actually, the burden of proof is on the believers. Non-believers don't have to prove a thing and until there is some proof, there is no way I'm believing.

[Joosh]

um dude i hate to break it to you but i would often munch on tato skins while posting

Potato skins are amazing. Hence WHY you were munching on them while posting. You're a genius, fquaye.

[fquaye14ten]

seriously....the problem with this board is people pretend like you can persuade someone whose first principles and yours don't coincide.

i've already seen a "god doesn't exist/god does exist" argument, an "abortion is murder/abortion is not murder" discussion, and a "government is any societal organization/ government is a specific set of organization" argument.

These are things that people must not disagree about or else a discussion is unlikely to go anywhere.

What do you Christians expect from Joosh but to be annoyed by Christians in the same way you're annoyed by his flat denial of Christianity?

it's just the way it is. it's just like how i gave up trying to convince certain catholic girls to fuck at nd

[CaptainBallz]

Atheists often have the exact same reaction whenever Christianity is mentioned. Case and point - Joosh's initial post in this thread.

Yet another reason I consider religious fundamentalists and atheists to be 2 sides of the same miserable coin.

That's a bit broad there.

I think there's a distinct difference between trying to insert one's beliefs into every aspect of public and private life and trying to keep others from inserting their beliefs into every aspect of public and private life.

One side of that equation deserves to be a bit more irritable than the other.

[Myrtle]

Actually, the burden of proof is on the believers. Non-believers don't have to prove a thing and until there is some proof, there is no way I'm believing.

qft

Show me that Jesus died for my sins (whatever that means...) and maybe I'll think about believing it.

[cbotnyse]

I just want to say this whole Jesus thing, is all based on faith. Nobody here is right or wrong. I feel like religion is always best kept to yourself.

$0.02 :thumbsup:

[Palehose13]

I just want to say this whole Jesus thing, is all based on faith. Nobody here is right or wrong. I feel like religion is always best kept to yourself.

$0.02 :thumbsup:

I wish everyone would keep their religion to themselves.

[fquaye14ten]

I just want to say this whole Jesus thing, is all based on faith. Nobody here is right or wrong. I feel like religion is always best kept to yourself.

$0.02 :thumbsup:


me 3

[Sir Realist]

I was under the impression that you didn't like generalizations.


I'm just pointing out patterns I often see.

[Sir Realist]

I just want to say this whole Jesus thing, is all based on faith. Nobody here is right or wrong. I feel like religion is always best kept to yourself.

$0.02 :thumbsup:

That's a lovely sentiment, but it seems the minute Christ or Christianity is mentioned many atheists feel compelled to bring up the "tooth fairy" or they feel the need to tell everyone how stupid they think the religion is.

In fact, the atheists are often much more obnoxious then the fundamentalist with their "preaching". When I see Christ brought up in a thread or in a discussion I don't fear a big sermon by some bible beater is going to be coming up soon that's going to make me shake my head and roll my eyes. I cringe because I know some atheist is surely about to go on some mindless anti-Christian rant.

[JohnBasedowYoda]

Those tombs don't look that old to me.


I like how basically they move one rock and bingo! there's some tombs and such that nobody laid a finger on forever!

Two things:

1) I didn't read anything on this

2) I don't know shit

3) All I've seen is a 30 second clip on CNN.


4) :irule:

[maurice]

WTF is up with all this "nobody is right or wrong" and "don't say my beliefs are a crock of shit" noise? It's not worth arguing about unless you think the other guy is full of shit! I certainly didn't come here to hug and hold hands with you brokebacks.

In fact, the atheists are often much more obnoxious then the fundamentalist with their "preaching".

You're wrong. That's a crock of shit. :whistle:

For every Athiest who says that Christians are really dumb, there are 16 fundamentalist wackos who think that Athiests are really dumb and also think that Athiests are going to burn in a lake of fire for eternity.

As long as Christians have that eternal lake of fire thing going for them, the Athiests and their inferior "worm food" position don't stand a chance in terms of obnoxiousfulness.

[maurice]

Who confiscated my WSJ designation?

I know I'm not banned, but c'mon . . .

[JohnBasedowYoda]

Who confiscated my WSJ designation?

I know I'm not banned, but c'mon . . .


It's in one of these boxes, make the right choice:

http://www.hamiltonspectator.com/images/hs/hs1584633_1.jpg

[CaptainBallz]

WTF is up with all this "nobody is right or wrong" and "don't say my beliefs are a crock of shit" noise? It's not worth arguing about unless you think the other guy is full of shit! I certainly didn't come here to hug and hold hands with you brokebacks.



You're wrong. That's a crock of shit. :whistle:

For every Athiest who says that Christians are really dumb, there are 16 fundamentalist wackos who think that Athiests are really dumb and also think that Athiests are going to burn in a lake of fire for eternity.

As long as Christians have that eternal lake of fire thing going for them, the Athiests and their inferior "worm food" position don't stand a chance in terms of obnoxiousfulness.

Plus, atheists never say that they'll "pray for you". Like that isn't the most patronizing shit you've ever heard.
"I disagree with you, so I'm going to pray that your soul isn't consumed in a fiery pit of pipin' hot hell." Yeah, thanks for that...Oh, and go fuck yourself.

Like I was saying before, atheists have every right to be an irritable set considering that they are currently the #1 most despised group of people in the country at this moment for doing nothing more than saying they don't defer their lives to some great cosmic ghost that noone even can prove exists. Shit like that's bound to get under anyone's skin.

[Sir Realist]

WTF is up with all this "nobody is right or wrong" and "don't say my beliefs are a crock of shit" noise? It's not worth arguing about unless you think the other guy is full of shit! I certainly didn't come here to hug and hold hands with you brokebacks.



You're wrong. That's a crock of shit. :whistle:

For every Athiest who says that Christians are really dumb, there are 16 fundamentalist wackos who think that Athiests are really dumb and also think that Athiests are going to burn in a lake of fire for eternity.

As long as Christians have that eternal lake of fire thing going for them, the Athiests and their inferior "worm food" position don't stand a chance in terms of obnoxiousfulness.

I'm an Orthodox Christian (the ORIGINAL and oldest Christian faith) and we don't believe in this "burning in a lake of fire" crap. This is a product of Western thinking. If someone were to bring up this line of thinking, I'd argue against it, but I never find myself having to argue against this concept because I never hear anybody spouting off about it.

It's seems it's the atheists that often feel compelled to chirp up whenever Christianity is brought up.

[Unregistered]

Who confiscated my WSJ designation?

I know I'm not banned, but c'mon . . .

One more post...

[Sir Realist]

Like I was saying before, atheists have every right to be an irritable set considering that they are currently the #1 most despised group of people in the country at this moment for doing nothing more than saying they don't defer their lives to some great cosmic ghost that noone even can prove exists. Shit like that's bound to get under anyone's skin.

I don't believe atheists should be despised. I believe they should be pitied. Atheism is sort of like being retarded. It's as if they have a genetic disorder that causes them to not be able to see the color blue or they have no sense of hearing. For whatever reason, atheists are unable to experience the transcension of the physical world. Scientists are now beginning to believe that it may be a genetic disorder (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101041025-725072,00.html). Deaf people shouldn't be despised and neither should atheists.

[JohnBasedowYoda]

The atheist group will always be the most irritating until they learn to spell atheist correctly. ;)


Another reason to be agnostic. Spelling

[cbotnyse]

I stand by my post. Why argue something based on faith? :shrug:

[maurice]

I'm an Orthodox Christian (the ORIGINAL and oldest Christian faith) and we don't believe in this "burning in a lake of fire" crap.

That's fine, but you're changing the subject. You said "the atheists are often much more obnoxious then the fundamentalist" . . . not Christians generally. Fundamentalist Christians absolutely believe that Athiests, Jews, Muslims, etc. . . . even Orthodox Christians, will burn in a lake of fire for eternity. Some think that Roman Catholics follow the Anti-Christ and that the Catholic belief in perfoming "good acts" is foolish. Fundamentalist Christians firmly believe that everything in the Bible is literally true, even though a 4th grader with an understanding of basic logic can prove that it's not, and even though many of them completely ignore some of Jesus' techings. Therefore, anybody who disagree with their conception of salvation is doomed . . . DOOMED!

You may not interact with Fundamentalist Christians, but there are millions of them, especially in the South and in rural areas across the U.S. Many Fundamentalist Christians are extremely vocal about their beliefs, because they literally think that bugging the crap out of you = trying to save your immortal soul. Many of them begin conversations with total strangers by asking "Are you saved?" I actually think that it's amusing, but I understand why most people disagree.

[Palehose13]

I'm just pointing out patterns I often see.

Fair enough, but I think Joosh is the only one here who had that type of knee-jerk reaction here. There are plenty of atheists and agnostics here and (as one) I don't see us being as obnoxious as the far right wing Christians. However, I am biased.

I certainly didn't come here to hug and hold hands with you brokebacks.
http://re3.mm-a2.yimg.com/image/2242102111
Sweet

For every Athiest who says that Christians are really dumb, there are 16 fundamentalist wackos who think that Athiests are really dumb and also think that Athiests are going to burn in a lake of fire for eternity.

As long as Christians have that eternal lake of fire thing going for them, the Athiests and their inferior "worm food" position don't stand a chance in terms of obnoxiousfulness.

There sure aren't a lot of athiests out there. In my "real life" (as opposed to my internet persona) I prefer not to engage in religious discussion. Why? Because whenever I say that I am athiest, it totally freaks people out. Most can't even fathom not believing in a higher power. Even agnostics try to convince me that I am actually agnostic...doesn't work. I don't believe in any sort of higher power, supreme being (supreme pizza...YES!), etc. I don't see that changing. On the flip side, I don't give a shit what other people believe, just don't try to convince me that I'm wrong.

Plus, atheists never say that they'll "pray for you". Like that isn't the most patronizing shit you've ever heard.
"I disagree with you, so I'm going to pray that your soul isn't consumed in a fiery pit of pipin' hot hell." Yeah, thanks for that...Oh, and go fuck yourself.

Like I was saying before, atheists have every right to be an irritable set considering that they are currently the #1 most despised group of people in the country at this moment for doing nothing more than saying they don't defer their lives to some great cosmic ghost that noone even can prove exists. Shit like that's bound to get under anyone's skin.

Which is why I try not to mention it in real life. Seriously, people look at me like I have a third eye when I say that I am atheist.

[Palehose13]

The atheist group will always be the most irritating until they learn to spell atheist correctly. ;)

Ok, kittle. It's hard to get out of the "ie" habit. :eek:

[maurice]

I don't believe atheists should be despised. I believe they should be pitied. Atheism is sort of like being retarded. It's as if they have a genetic disorder

Now that's more like it! No more of that huggy touchy feely crap. Political / religious posts should adopt your approach: I'm right because I have teh r3al, authentic Word of God as related to me personally by a burning bush and anybody who disagree with me is a retarded mutant.
:thumbsup:

[JohnBasedowYoda]

I stand by my post. Why argue something based on faith? :shrug:

Because most of the major religions teach their followers to spread the word and such.

[maurice]

And one more thing . . . Athiest Athiest Athiest Athiest Athiest x20.

I thought that Kittle was going to get the power to edit our posts for spelling / grammar in place of a traditional spell-check feature.

[samram]

Ok, kittle. It's hard to get out of the "ie" habit. :eek:

Bah, you probably just don't believe in the rules of spelling either:

I before E except after C or in atheist. I think that's what I lernt in 3rd grade.

[Palehose13]

Another reason to be agnostic. Spelling

Claiming to be "agnostic" is fucking weak. Pick a side, brokeback.

[JohnBasedowYoda]

Claiming to be "agnostic" is fucking weak. Pick a side, brokeback.


Hell no I won't go

[Sir Realist]

That's fine, but you're changing the subject. You said "the atheists are often much more obnoxious then the fundamentalist" . . . not Christians generally. Fundamentalist Christians absolutely believe that Athiests, Jews, Muslims, etc. . . . even Orthodox Christians, will burn in a lake of fire for eternity. Some think that Roman Catholics follow the Anti-Christ and that the Catholic belief in perfoming "good acts" is foolish. Fundamentalist Christians firmly believe that everything in the Bible is literally true, even though a 4th grader with an understanding of basic logic can prove that it's not, and even though many of them completely ignore some of Jesus' techings. Therefore, anybody who disagree with their conception of salvation is doomed . . . DOOMED!

You may not interact with Fundamentalist Christians, but there are millions of them, especially in the South and in rural areas across the U.S. Many Fundamentalist Christians are extremely vocal about their beliefs, because they literally think that bugging the crap out of you = trying to save your immortal soul. Many of them begin conversations with total strangers by asking "Are you saved?" I actually think that it's amusing, but I understand why most people disagree.

I agree with everything in this post. For whatever reason, it seems I'm always surrounded by more big mouthed atheists than I am big mouthed bible beaters. :shrug:

[Unregistered]

I thought that Kittle was going to get the power to edit our posts for spelling / grammar in place of a traditional spell-check feature.

Ha, that's a good idea. :D

[1951Campbell]

It's seems it's the atheists that often feel compelled to chirp up whenever Christianity is brought up.

Well, I'm an atheist, and tend not to chirp up so much. I don't want to be closely identified with most atheists, as most atheists tend to be overly strident ("religion is for idiots") or intellectually infirm (when pressed, they hate religion because mommy and or daddy made them go to church every Sunday when they wanted to play in the sandbox, and have really no other reason).

[Palehose13]

I don't believe atheists should be despised. I believe they should be pitied. Atheism is sort of like being retarded. It's as if they have a genetic disorder that causes them to not be able to see the color blue or they have no sense of hearing. For whatever reason, atheists are unable to experience the transcension of the physical world. Scientists are now beginning to believe that it may be a genetic disorder (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101041025-725072,00.html). Deaf people shouldn't be despised and neither should atheists.


I would feel bad for people who waste so much time and money during their life on religion and religious practices, but that is their choice. They are mindless sheep who believe whatever mommy, daddy, and society tells them to believe. A lobotomy would be an upgrade.
:douche:

[Sir Realist]

Ha, that's a good idea. :D

If he's gonna do that, make sure he makes the corrections in red so we can learn not to make the same mistakes again. :)

[Sir Realist]

Well, I'm an atheist, and tend not to chirp up so much. I don't want to be closely identified with most atheists, as most atheists tend to be overly strident ("religion is for idiots") or intellectually infirm (when pressed, they hate religion because mommy and or daddy made them go to church every Sunday when they wanted to play in the sandbox, and have really no other reason).

Ahh... you're the kind of atheist I used to be. I completely respect your position. :)

[CaptainBallz]

I don't believe atheists should be despised. I believe they should be pitied. Atheism is sort of like being retarded. It's as if they have a genetic disorder that causes them to not be able to see the color blue or they have no sense of hearing. For whatever reason, atheists are unable to experience the transcension of the physical world. Scientists are now beginning to believe that it may be a genetic disorder (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101041025-725072,00.html). Deaf people shouldn't be despised and neither should atheists.

Yes! You're really elevating the conversation here. Congrats!:thumbsup:

You can say all that as easily as I can say you lack logic, reason, reading comprehension, and common sense. I'm not saying you do, but it would be that easy.

There's a false correlation that some people tend to draw between the concepts of spirituality and god. They are not the same thing. Nor do I believe that "spiritual" experiences have anything to do with the supernatural or some cosmic Oz behind the curtain "that we cannot see within the mortal coil."
Because you assume the two mean the same thing, you assume that atheists never feel "connected" to others, the world around them, or the universe at large. You then pity them and call them blind. That is what we would call "bullshit". Addressing the organic connection between all things and attributing that connection to the bogeyman are two wholly separate phenomena. Let's get this straight now before continuing.

[Sir Realist]

I would feel bad for people who waste so much time and money during their life on religion and religious practices, but that is their choice. They are mindless sheep who believe whatever mommy, daddy, and society tells them to believe. A lobotomy would be an upgrade.
:douche:

You really need to read that article I have linked. Here (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101041025-725072,00.html) it is again.

[Efilnikufesin]

Well, I'm an atheist, and tend not to chirp up so much. I don't want to be closely identified with most atheists, as most atheists tend to be overly strident ("religion is for idiots") or intellectually infirm (when pressed, they hate religion because mommy and or daddy made them go to church every Sunday when they wanted to play in the sandbox, and have really no other reason).

I am like you.. expect if someone preaches to me from the book.. I preach to them from mine..

respect other viewpoints.. That is the Atheist way.

[maurice]

I love to argue about religion, even off-line. I can't muster up hate for religion, because I find the whole thing so damn amusing. With the exception of the wishy-washy Agnostics, everybody is convinced that everybody else is wrong, even though the arguments for any specific belief are extremely unpersuasive and almost certainly wrong. Very smart people throughout the ages have gone to great lengths and wasted years of their lives analyzing to death these unlikely mythological points, because some dude pulled it out of his ass and scribbled it on a scroll 1,000 or more years ago. Groups of people have slaughtered each other over relatively tiny differences.

Religion definitely must be some kind of genetic defect.

[Palehose13]

You really need to read that article I have linked. Here (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101041025-725072,00.html) it is again.

First, I want to make it clear that I was sarcastically responding to your post.

Second, I did read the article. And???

[fquaye14ten]

For whatever reason, atheists are unable to experience the transcension of the physical world. Scientists are now beginning to believe that it may be a genetic disorder (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101041025-725072,00.html). Deaf people shouldn't be despised and neither should atheists.

I don't believe that for one second. Wallace Stevens was not religious when he wrote most of his poems

[JohnBasedowYoda]

My "Book"
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/1/18/Drew_Carey_Book.jpg

some of my "psalms"

My dick is so big it's in the other room making us drinks

My dick is so big it has an elbow

My dick is so big it won't return your calls.

My dick hit .370 in the minors before it hurt its knee.

My dick is so big, I could wear it as a tie if I wasn't so afraid of getting a hard-on and killing myself

My dick is so big, Stephen Hawking has a theory about it.

[Palehose13]

I love to argue about religion, even off-line. I can't muster up hate for religion, because I find the whole thing so damn amusing. With the exception of the wishy-washy Agnostics, everybody is convinced that everybody else is wrong, even though the arguments for any specific belief are extremely unpersuasive and almost certainly wrong. Very smart people throughout the ages have gone to great lengths and wasted years of their lives analyzing to death these unlikely mythological points, because some dude pulled it out of his ass and scribbled it on a scroll 1,000 or more years ago. Groups of people have slaughtered each other over relatively tiny differences.

Religion definitely must be some kind of genetic defect.

That is what I got out of that article, especially since the number of atheists are increasing. It must be evolution. :shrug:

Like Susan Sarandon, "I belong to the Church of Baseball." :)

[Sir Realist]

Yes! You're really elevating the conversation here. Congrats!:thumbsup:

You can say all that as easily as I can say you lack logic, reason, reading comprehension, and common sense. I'm not saying you do, but it would be that easy.

There's a false correlation that some people tend to draw between the concepts of spirituality and god. They are not the same thing. Nor do I believe that "spiritual" experiences have anything to do with the supernatural or some cosmic Oz behind the curtain "that we cannot see within the mortal coil."
Because you assume the two mean the same thing, you assume that atheists never feel "connected" to others, the world around them, or the universe at large. You then pity them and call them blind. That is what we would call "bullshit". Addressing the organic connection between all things and attributing that connection to the bogeyman are two wholly separate phenomena. Let's get this straight now before continuing.

Religion is the language of self-transcension, and I believe there are many different levels of this transcension. Some may experience it on a level where they may feel connected to the universe on a small level and still consider themselves atheists.

Others have had such deep and profound experiences that can only be described as enlightened. I would put Abraham, Christ, Mohammed, and Buddha in this category.

Many others experience a transcension somewhere in the middle and identify with one of the enlightened that came before them and documented their experiences. They tend to become followers of the experience of the enlightened.

[Palehose13]

Religion is the language of self-transcension, and I believe there are many different levels of this transcension. Some may experience it on a level where they may feel connected to the universe on a small level and still consider themselves atheists.

Others have had such deep and profound experiences that can only be described as enlightened. I would put Abraham, Christ, Mohammed, and Buddha in this category.

Many others experience a transcension somewhere in the middle and identify with one of the enlightened that came before them and documented their experiences. They tend to become followers of the experience of the enlightened.

Says who?

I think some of who you consider "enlightened" have some sort of psychosis and are excellent manipulators. Humans are naturally curious creatures and need explanations. Back in the day, god, religion, and spirituality satisfied a lot of that curiousity. But of course, this is just my opinion. I have no proof and neither does anyone else. You obviously have had some deep religious experience and have strong convictions. I have never had anything of the sort and I have strong convictions too. We have no idea who is right or wrong and to be honest, I don't care. What I do know is that I am a good person and make a lot of positive contributions to society and am tired of people looking down on me for a lack of faith in a higher power.

[JohnBasedowYoda]

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/1364/jeremypivency1.jpg

Hug it out, bitches!:o

[Sir Realist]

.

Religion definitely must be some kind of genetic defect.

Actually, it's atheism that's the defect.

That article makes it pretty clear that there's a good chance that mankind or at least entire walks of people would have been wiped off the earth if not for their religious faith driving them to persevere the hardships of life on this planet.

That's probably why there are so few atheists on the planet. Evolution has weeded most of 'em out by now.

[Sir Realist]

Says who?



Joseph Campbell and Karen Armstrong.

[Palehose13]

Actually, it's atheism that's the defect.

That article makes it pretty clear that there's a good chance that mankind or at least entire walks of people would have been wiped off the earth if not for their religious faith driving them to persevere the hardships of life on this planet.

That's probably why there are so few atheists on the planet. Evolution has weeded most of 'em out by now.

That is pure speculation. It sure wasn't very clear to me. What was clear was that some people get some sort of "chemical high" from religion. Some people get a "chemical high" from killing people. Others get a chemical high from drinking mass amounts of alcohol. The brain is a crazy place that isn't even close to being explained yet.

As far as religion saving the species, that is pure speculation also. We have no idea if pre-historic man had any sort of belief system and if they did what that was. It is clear to me that the opposite of what has been claimed is true. Many people have been and are still being killed in the name of religion. Some killers claim to kill in the name of Satan (opposite end of the spectrum, but still associated with spirituality). I don't know too many violent atheists (none in fact). In fact, the ones I know have a strong belief in man as opposed to being good because of a fear of a higher power.

[1951Campbell]

Actually, it's atheism that's the defect.

That's probably why there are so few atheists on the planet. Evolution has weeded most of 'em out by now.

Or religious adherents weeded them out or kept people from publically self-identifying as believing in God--look at the Western world, atheism was long a belief best kept under one's hat.

[Palehose13]

Joseph Campbell and Karen Armstrong.

Um...ok. I don't agree.

[1951Campbell]

Also, Realist, proving that people get some sort of "high" from religion in no way proves the existence of God.

[Sir Realist]

That is pure speculation. It sure wasn't very clear to me. What was clear was that some people get some sort of "chemical high" from religion. Some people get a "chemical high" from killing people. Others get a chemical high from drinking mass amounts of alcohol. The brain is a crazy place that isn't even close to being explained yet.

As far as religion saving the species, that is pure speculation also. We have no idea if pre-historic man had any sort of belief system and if they did what that was. It is clear to me that the opposite of what has been claimed is true. Many people have been and are still being killed in the name of religion. Some killers claim to kill in the name of Satan (opposite end of the spectrum, but still associated with spirituality). I don't know too many violent atheists (none in fact). In fact, the ones I know have a strong belief in man as opposed to being good because of a fear of a higher power.

I think I've pretty much experienced every kind of "high" a person can feel, but nothing comes close (well... actually the drug "extacy" comes fairly close) to the high felt during the very quiet moments of self-transcension. It's truly a glorious feeling that often moves me to streams of tears.

I wish everyone could experience the utter beauty of self-transcension. I truly feel sorry for those that can't.

[Sir Realist]

Or religious adherents weeded them out or kept people from publically self-identifying as believing in God--look at the Western world, atheism was long a belief best kept under one's hat.

From what I've read about Western Christianity, the atheists were wise to keep their beliefs under their hats.

[Sir Realist]

Also, Realist, proving that people get some sort of "high" from religion in no way proves the existence of God.

No shit.

[CaptainBallz]

I think I've pretty much experienced every kind of "high" a person can feel, but nothing comes close (well... actually the drug "extacy" comes fairly close) to the high felt during the very quiet moments of self-transcension. It's truly a glorious feeling that often moves me to streams of tears.

I wish everyone could experience the utter beauty of self-transcension. I truly feel sorry for those that can't.

From what I've read about Western Christianity, the atheists were wise to keep their beliefs under their hats.

No shit.

Dude, none of what you're posting is helping your argument whatsoever. You've been trumpeting some silly Time magazine article like it's gospel (no pun intended) only to agree that it doesn't mean a damn thing.
Then you're talking about some sort of meditation as "self-transcendence" which, again, has nothing to do with anything.
WTF does any of this have to do with atheists being more blind, and pitiful, and more obnoxious than fundies? And how is this not all completely pompous psychobabble unwarranting of the atheist response that you loathe so much?

[JohnBasedowYoda]

It's a Greek root, so that rule doesn't apply. Atheos, to deny the gods. Think "theology"--the E comes before the I. No one spells it "thieology."

Just like people spell the word "definition," and then use the word "definately." Where does this "a" come from? :confused: :jagoff:

Check out the big brain on Batsy:eek:

[samram]

It's a Greek root, so that rule doesn't apply. Atheos, to deny the gods. Think "theology"--the E comes before the I. No one spells it "thieology."

Just like people spell the word "definition," and then use the word "definately." Where does this "a" come from? :confused: :jagoff:

The "definately" thing confuses me too. I can't think of anything in the sound of that word that would suggest to so many people that there's an "a" in the third syllable.

[StockdaleforVeep]

That's a lovely sentiment, but it seems the minute Christ or Christianity is mentioned many atheists feel compelled to bring up the "tooth fairy" or they feel the need to tell everyone how stupid they think the religion is.

In fact, the atheists are often much more obnoxious then the fundamentalist with their "preaching". When I see Christ brought up in a thread or in a discussion I don't fear a big sermon by some bible beater is going to be coming up soon that's going to make me shake my head and roll my eyes. I cringe because I know some atheist is surely about to go on some mindless anti-Christian rant.


Correct, you have atheists who cause fits because the dollar bill says "under god" and the national anthem says god

[StockdaleforVeep]

Claiming to be "agnostic" is fucking weak. Pick a side, brokeback.

Whats wrong in the belief that religion can be viewed as a tree. One God as the root and all the branches(Religions) branch out from it.

[maurice]

the national anthem says god

It didn't used to. "God" was added to distinguish us from those awful Athiests (sic) in the USSR.

[StockdaleforVeep]

I would feel bad for people who waste so much time and money during their life on religion and religious practices, but that is their choice. They are mindless sheep who believe whatever mommy, daddy, and society tells them to believe. A lobotomy would be an upgrade.
:douche:



riiiight cuz its wrong yo have a belief structure. Whether you believe in God or not, the concept of God has helped alot of people(yes yes and it has hurt) but people who have had strong belief in God have been able to do amazing things

Also, mother teresa must be a huge bitch we should feel bad for, she was SOOOOO into God

[StockdaleforVeep]

It didn't used to. "God" was added to distinguish us from those awful Athiests (sic) in the USSR.
Correct but what makes it so bad

[maurice]

It's problematic from a 1st Amendment standpoint, because it was intended to favor some religions and disfavor Athiests (sic).

[JohnBasedowYoda]

I wonder what Lucifer's take is on all this God Squad stuff:confused:

[StockdaleforVeep]

It's problematic from a 1st Amendment standpoint, because it was intended to favor some religions and disfavor Athiests (sic).

would u rather be a mason?

btw, we have union meetings at a masonic temple...,....creepy!

Im searching every time for hidden bricks so i can find clues\treasure

[maurice]

would u rather be a mason?

That's the funny thing about money. It might say "In God We Trust," but it also has a lot of creepy Freemason / pagan stuff on it.
:shrug:

[JohnBasedowYoda]

That's the funny thing about money. It might say "In God We Trust," but it also has a lot of creepy Freemason / pagan stuff on it.
:shrug:

is there anything that actually explains what all that means?

[samram]

is there anything that actually explains what all that means?

Either "Angels and Demons" or "The DaVinci code" discussed all that stuff on the dollar bill.

[JohnBasedowYoda]

Either "Angels and Demons" or "The DaVinci code" discussed all that stuff on the dollar bill.

I was hoping for a more reputable source

[maurice]

The History Channel is only sometimes reputable, but they had a pretty decent program on this subject. They interviewed what appeared to be legitimate Freemasonry experts who debunked the crackpot claims and concluded that it was all pretty innocuous stuff and typical of the era.

It's clearly non-Christian though, which helps undermine the "We were founded by Christians as a 100% Christian Nation" BS that I hear all the time.

[Palehose13]

I wish everyone could experience the utter beauty of self-transcension. I truly feel sorry for those that can't.

Please, don't feel sorry for me. I am overall happy and very satisfied with my life and the direction in which it is going.

Correct, you have atheists who cause fits because the dollar bill says "under god" and the national anthem says god

I don't throw a fit and as maurice already stated, those things weren't always there. "Under God" was put in the pledge in the '50's because of the Red Scare. The government is not supposed to support a religion. In my eyes, "under god" and "in god we trust" supports religion. Also, allowing churches and religious organization to have much more latitude than other not for profits in my eyes is the government supporting religion.

Whats wrong in the belief that religion can be viewed as a tree. One God as the root and all the branches(Religions) branch out from it.

Nothing, but that is not the definition of agnostic. From wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic):

Agnosticism (from the Greek a, meaning "without" and gnosis, "knowledge", translating to unknowable) is the philosophical view that the truth value of certain claims—particularly theological claims regarding metaphysics, afterlife or the existence of God, god(s), or deities—is unknown or (possibly) inherently unknowable.

Agnostics claim either that it is not possible to have absolute or certain knowledge or, alternatively, that while certainty may be possible, they personally have no knowledge. Agnosticism in both cases involves some form of skepticism.

Demographic research services[1] normally list agnostics alongside categories such as atheist and non-religious, although this is misleading, since religious people can be agnostic (indicating a lack of absolute certainty, therefore treating their religion as a faith).

It's clearly non-Christian though, which helps undermine the "We were founded by Christians as a 100% Christian Nation" BS that I hear all the time.

Damn. You just keep destroying their (meaning fundamentalists) arguments.

[1951Campbell]

Anyone else familiar with the Northwest Ordinance argument in re the 1st Amendment and the Establishment Clause? In a nutshell: http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/arg5.htm

Anyway, the following quote appears in legislation enacted right after the time the 1st Amendment was ratified:

Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged.

The upshot is that it appears the Founders were not as radical about separation of church and state as modern secular folks would have liked them to be. At least that's the sense I got when we discussed this in my Religious Liberties class.

[fquaye14ten]

Religion is the language of self-transcension, and I believe there are many different levels of this transcension. Some may experience it on a level where they may feel connected to the universe on a small level and still consider themselves atheists.

Others have had such deep and profound experiences that can only be described as enlightened. I would put Abraham, Christ, Mohammed, and Buddha in this category.

Many others experience a transcension somewhere in the middle and identify with one of the enlightened that came before them and documented their experiences. They tend to become followers of the experience of the enlightened.

Stevens sez:

"A High-Toned Christian Woman"

Poetry is the supreme fiction, madame.
Take the moral law and make a nave of it
And from the nave build haunted heaven. Thus,
The conscience is converted into palms,
Like windy citherns hankering for hymns.
We agree in principle. That's clear. But take
The opposing law and make a peristyle,
And from the peristyle project a masque
Beyond the planets. Thus, our bawdiness,
Unpurged by epitaph, indulged at last,
Is equally converted into palms,
Squiggling like saxophones. And palm for palm,
Madame, we are where we began. Allow,
Therefore, that in the planetary scene
Your disaffected flagellants, well-stuffed,
Smacking their muzzy bellies in parade,
Proud of such novelties of the sublime,
Such tink and tank and tunk-a-tunk-tunk,
May, merely may, madame, whip from themselves
A jovial hullabaloo among the spheres.
This will make widows wince. But fictive things
Wink as they will. Wink most when widows wince.


"Sunday Morning"

1
Complacencies of the peignoir, and late
Coffee and oranges in a sunny chair,
And the green freedom of a cockatoo
Upon a rug mingle to dissipate
The holy hush of ancient sacrifice.
She dreams a little, and she feels the dark
Encroachment of that old catastrophe,
As a calm darkens among water-lights.
The pungent oranges and bright, green wings
Seem things in some procession of the dead,
Winding across wide water, without sound.
The day is like wide water, without sound.
Stilled for the passing of her dreaming feet
Over the seas, to silent Palestine,
Dominion of the blood and sepulchre.

2
Why should she give her bounty to the dead?
What is divinity if it can come
Only in silent shadows and in dreams?
Shall she not find in comforts of the sun,
In pungent fruit and bright green wings, or else
In any balm or beauty of the earth,
Things to be cherished like the thought of heaven?
Divinity must live within herself:
Passions of rain, or moods in falling snow;
Grievings in loneliness, or unsubdued
Elations when the forest blooms; gusty
Emotions on wet roads on autumn nights;
All pleasures and all pains, remembering
The bough of summer and the winter branch.
These are the measure destined for her soul.




Realist, let's be realistic: religion is merely one vehicle for transcencion

[Palehose13]

Anyone else familiar with the Northwest Ordinance argument in re the 1st Amendment and the Establishment Clause? In a nutshell: http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/arg5.htm

Anyway, the following quote appears in legislation enacted right after the time the 1st Amendment was ratified:



The upshot is that it appears the Founders were not as radical about separation of church and state as modern secular folks would have liked them to be. At least that's the sense I got when we discussed this in my Religious Liberties class.

I don't know. I see it as a poorly constructed sentence. You could read it as that religion is encouraged in schools OR that schools and education are encouraged as necessary to the happiness of mankind. Of course, like most things it is cloudy and can be interpretted many different ways to fit however one wants to make it fit.

[1951Campbell]

I don't know. I see it as a poorly constructed sentence. You could read it as that religion is encouraged in schools OR that schools and education are encouraged as necessary to the happiness of mankind. Of course, like most things it is cloudy and can be interpretted many different ways to fit however one wants to make it fit.


No, it's pretty clear, just not to our modern ears. Were it written today, it would probably read "because religion, morality, and knowledge are necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged."

[Palehose13]

No, it's pretty clear, just not to our modern ears. Were it written today, it would probably read "because religion, morality, and knowledge are necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged."

I still read it as an endorsement for schools not religion.

[CaptainBallz]

Anyone else familiar with the Northwest Ordinance argument in re the 1st Amendment and the Establishment Clause? In a nutshell: http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/arg5.htm

Anyway, the following quote appears in legislation enacted right after the time the 1st Amendment was ratified:



The upshot is that it appears the Founders were not as radical about separation of church and state as modern secular folks would have liked them to be. At least that's the sense I got when we discussed this in my Religious Liberties class.

that website also contains quite a few viable refutations to how you're interpreting that article.
One in particular: http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/arg5d.htm

If Congress had wanted to provide for religious aid to schools in the Northwest Territory, they could have easily done so in the Northwest Ordinance. In fact, the record indicates that they twice defeated proposals to authorize such aid. While Manasseh Cutler was successful in getting Congress to agree to language that linked education with religion, this language did not explicitly authorize government support of religious institutions and, hence, fell short of what he wanted.

[kittle42]

I agree with everything in this post. For whatever reason, it seems I'm always surrounded by more big mouthed atheists than I am big mouthed bible beaters. :shrug:

Probably because you live in an urban center and not Wichita.

[1951Campbell]

I still read it as an endorsement for schools not religion.

Absolutely. But it stills says that religion is necessary for good government and the happiness of mankind.

[Palehose13]

Absolutely. But it stills says that religion is necessary for good government and the happiness of mankind.

Sure. They also wrote that "all men are created equal" while being slave owners. Our founding fathers were pretty damn good, but not infalliable.

[1951Campbell]

that website also contains quite a few viable refutations to how you're interpreting that article.


I know, that's why I posted it. I'm far, far more separationist than accomodationist, but I just feel like anyone who says the Founders demanded an absolute separation--whatever that would entail--are incorrect. They seem to inject asides approving religion all over the place. And some states did have established religions even into the 1800's, and I don't recall Congress trying to stop that, although I could be wrong.

[Sir Realist]

would u rather be a mason?

btw, we have union meetings at a masonic temple...,....creepy!

Im searching every time for hidden bricks so i can find clues\treasure

:D The Free Masons are simply a fraternity. A lot of crazy mythology has sprung up about the Free Masons because they keep secrets, but those secrets are are kept in order to strengthen the feelings of brotherhood within the fraternity. There's nothing evil or sinister about the Masons. Much of that was spin created by the Roman Catholic Church because it didn't believe secrets should be kept from it.

[Sir Realist]

Dude, none of what you're posting is helping your argument whatsoever. You've been trumpeting some silly Time magazine article like it's gospel (no pun intended) only to agree that it doesn't mean a damn thing.
Then you're talking about some sort of meditation as "self-transcendence" which, again, has nothing to do with anything.
WTF does any of this have to do with atheists being more blind, and pitiful, and more obnoxious than fundies? And how is this not all completely pompous psychobabble unwarranting of the atheist response that you loathe so much?

I kept posting the same Time magazine article because I belong to other discussion groups where people post articles or links to articles and then others will quote from the articles and make comments either for or against its content. For whatever reason, that has not yet happened.

Nobody seems to be doing that. The responses I keep getting never quote from or address any of the article's content. It's as if it hasn't even been read. I figured I'd keep posting the link to see if anybody would actually disect the Time magazine article instead of just pretending it isn't there and repeating falsehoods the article exposes.

[CaptainBallz]

:D The Free Masons are simply a fraternity. A lot of crazy mythology has sprung up about the Free Masons because they keep secrets, but those secrets are are kept in order to strengthen the feelings of brotherhood within the fraternity. There's nothing evil or sinister about the Masons. Much of that was spin created by the Roman Catholic Church because it didn't believe secrets should be kept from it.

Then they should stop putting their trippy pagan symbols all over the place and stop ruling the country all the time...

http://www.cuttingedge.org/map.gif
(washington DC Aerial map)

[Sir Realist]

Then they should stop putting their trippy pagan symbols all over the place and stop ruling the country all the time...

http://www.cuttingedge.org/map.gif
(washington DC Aerial map)

One of the lines of that pentagram isn't even an actual street in Washington. It was just drawn in to make the street lay out look like a pentagram. If the Masons were as powerful as some people believe them to be, don't you think they'd have been able to build that last imaginary street to make a complete pentagram?

That map is just a coincidense.

[CaptainBallz]

That map is just a coincidense.

Probably not...

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n183/captainballz/ani1.gif


It's not even a debate that there's Masonic symbolism scattered all over DC, even in our own "in-god-we're-trusting" cash money!!


http://www.theosophymiami.org/sitebuilder/images/the-all-seeing-eye_1_-217x240.jpg

http://z.about.com/d/altreligion/1/0/d/J/1/sobverse.jpg


All Masonic.

[CaptainBallz]

:D

Okay, Nic Cage or Dan Brown--whoever you are. That's a pretty arbitrary pattern that you can probably create in most cities. Maybe I'll open a map of Irving Park, Cicero and Milwaukee and find a six pointed star, then write a book on how the Jews control Chicago from an underground bunker.

Do that and we'll discuss it. :cool:

[Sir Realist]

All Masonic.

Not true, especially the symbolism on the back of the dollar bill. It was designed by a non-Mason.

That map actually shows how it is not a complete pentagram and one of the streets has to be imagined to complete the full symbol.

Next you'll be telling me you've got a miracle piece of toast in the shape of Jesus's head. :)

[Unregistered]

Do that and we'll discuss it. :cool:

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/5011/chiburbshx9.jpg

Jews own Chicago. Obviously. :D

[Palehose13]

I kept posting the same Time magazine article because I belong to other discussion groups where people post articles or links to articles and then others will quote from the articles and make comments either for or against its content. For whatever reason, that has not yet happened.

Nobody seems to be doing that. The responses I keep getting never quote from or address any of the article's content. It's as if it hasn't even been read. I figured I'd keep posting the link to see if anybody would actually disect the Time magazine article instead of just pretending it isn't there and repeating falsehoods the article exposes.

I'm not pretending that it isn't there. I read it. All seven pages. I don't see it exposing any falsehoods at all. I also don't consider Time Magazine to be a very reputable source.

[CaptainBallz]

Not true, especially the symbolism on the back of the dollar bill. It was designed by a non-Mason.

That map actually shows how it is not a complete pentagram and one of the streets has to be imagined to complete the full symbol.

Next you'll be telling me you've got a miracle piece of toast in the shape of Jesus's head. :)

Is geometry that lost on you? Connect the dots.
You'd have to ask the street planner of DC, Pierre Charles L'Enfante (supposed-Freemason) why that street is not present. I'll try and look it up. But like I said before, it's not even a debate whether pagan/masonic symbolism was widely used in the design of Washington DC, and other cities for that matter. Kind of like what the jews did with the Chicagoland area...

I know it's more believable that a man/god was born from a mother who never had sex, walked on water, performed all kinds of crazy healing magic, rose from the dead, and promised TO RETURN than it is to believe that there's some symbolism built into a city design, but hey, we all have our skepticisms.

[CaptainBallz]

LOL. Chicago was made into a perfect grid after the destruction of the Fire and that was in the 1800s, before most of the ethnic groups--particularly European Jews--would plant their keisters in our fair burgh.

you buttmunch... I was cracking wise about unregs star of david chicago thingy...

[CaptainBallz]

Hence the LOL. :rolleyes:

See you in a week.

Curses!

:mad:

[Prope]

seriously....the problem with this board is people pretend like you can persuade someone whose first principles and yours don't coincide.

I can't wait until college football season.

[JohnBasedowYoda]

Maybe they just thought pagan symbols were cool:shrug:

[CaptainBallz]

Maybe they just thought pagan symbols were cool:shrug:

I do. They're super-metal.

Check it---

http://z.about.com/d/paganwiccan/1/0/J/1/eyehorus.gif:rock:

http://z.about.com/d/paganwiccan/1/0/C/1/pentacle.gif:rock:

http://www.cuttingedge.org/Obelisk_Washington_Mon.JPG:rock:

[fquaye14ten]

I can't wait until college football season.

i shall destroy you.

brady quinn will lead whatever team he's on to the super bowl next year

[Unregistered]

i shall destroy you.

brady quinn will lead whatever team he's on to the super bowl next year

:cockpunch:

[CaptainBallz]

:cockpunch:

your pictures of red x's are notoriously gay.

[CaptainBallz]

I see the tag.

Really?
What gives? I saw another post where the red x of pain was in full effect.

I need to diddle my inturnot tubes..

[Palehose13]

Really?
What gives? I saw another post where the red x of pain was in full effect.

I need to diddle my inturnot tubes..

I can only see a select few tags when I am at work. When I am at home tonight, I'll be able to see them all. Weird cause I am using the same computer. One of the ones that I can see seems appropriate now. :shrug:

[Prope]

Back to the original topic at hand. I love archeology, ancient history, and the history of the church, so something like this is up my alley.

[fquaye14ten]

:cockpunch:

your mother?

[Unregistered]

Really?
What gives? I saw another post where the red x of pain was in full effect.

I need to diddle my inturnot tubes..

Hmm... Sounds like YOU are the one that is the ball-licker. :thumbsup:

[Unregistered]

your mother?

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/8615/wiroj9.gif

[the fluffer]

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/8615/wiroj9.gif


C-Dub in the hizzie