Opening Day Outfield [Archive]

the fluffer

02-26-2007, 10:10 AM

:eek:

Manager Ozzie Guillen said he has stressed restraint to Podsednik but confirmed that his leadoff batter is recovering quickly. Guillen hinted that right-handed hitter Pablo Ozuna could lead off on Opening Day against Cleveland left-hander C.C. Sabathia, with Darin Erstad starting in center. Erstad said his right ankle feels fine after surgery last October to remove bone spurs. Ozuna is a .391 lifetime hitter (9-for-23) against Sabathia.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-0702250062feb25,1,6896224.story?coll=cs-baseball-print

Scary. In a different article (maybe it came from the same interview), Ozzie goes on to say:

My headache right now is a lot of outfielders," said Guillen, who is trying to find playing time for Pablo Ozuna, Rob Mackowiak, Brian Anderson, Ryan Sweeney and Jerry Owens, along with starters Darin Erstad and Jermaine Dye.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-070225soxbits,1,5772077.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

So many outfielders so little playing time to give out, eh? But two part-timers on opening day? Erstad against Sabathia? Maybe this is all posturing by Ozzie to try to get BA motivated, but it just doesn't make much sense.

fquaye14ten

02-26-2007, 10:12 AM

our outfield is a fucking nightmare.

i am by no means a dark cloud, but our outfield is such a huge area of concern, i already have heartburn

Efilnikufesin

02-26-2007, 10:19 AM

our outfield is a fucking nightmare.

i am by no means a dark cloud, but our outfield is such a huge area of concern, i already have heartburn

Why do you say that?

Dye, is solid in RF.. Only major Concern is health
Anderson is going to be just fine in CF..
Osuna/Erstad is going to fill in nicely until Pods comes back

The OF is the least of my concerns.. The OF didn't cost us the 06 season.. The pitching staff did.

CaptainBallz

02-26-2007, 10:29 AM

Why do you say that?

Dye, is solid in RF.. Only major Concern is health
Anderson is going to be just fine in CF..
Osuna/Erstad is going to fill in nicely until Pods comes back

The OF is the least of my concerns.. The OF didn't cost us the 06 season.. The pitching staff did.

Anderson would have to be in CF to be just fine and Ozuna sucks hog in left. The Anderson situation was a problem last season. It took the pitching staff imploding to mask how crappy the situation was, but that doesn't detract from the fact that there's major issues--issues that were only partially addressed in the offseason.

fquaye14ten

02-26-2007, 10:34 AM

Why do you say that?

Dye, is solid in RF.. Only major Concern is health
Anderson is going to be just fine in CF..
Osuna/Erstad is going to fill in nicely until Pods comes back

The OF is the least of my concerns.. The OF didn't cost us the 06 season.. The pitching staff did.

Dye is great in RF

Anderson is a great defensive mediocre (at best)offensive CF

Erstad and Pods are well below average in LF.

Meanwhile we have no depth.

How is this a good situation?

Efilnikufesin

02-26-2007, 10:35 AM

Anderson would have to be in CF to be just fine and Ozuna sucks hog in left. The Anderson situation was a problem last season. It took the pitching staff imploding to mask how crappy the situation was, but that doesn't detract from the fact that there's major issues--issues that were only partially addressed in the offseason.

Please explain how the entire pitching staff sucking was on Anderson not hitting well the first 1/2 of the season?

Efilnikufesin

02-26-2007, 10:39 AM

Dye is great in RF

Anderson is a great defensive mediocre (at best)offensive CF

Erstad and Pods are well below average in LF.

Meanwhile we have no depth.

How is this a good situation?

Dye is good.. Lets not get ahead of ourselves now..

Anderson is good all around player.. I don't know exactly what you expect.. KEn Griffey numbers?

Pods is a below Avg def, decent lead off hitter for the price. Which makes Anderson in CF, that much more needed for D.

Erstad and Osuna are decent back-ups.. Let us not forget that Rob Mac can play both Corner OF spots.

I don't see how this is even close to a concern.

the fluffer

02-26-2007, 10:41 AM

LuvSox

02-26-2007, 10:42 AM

Dye is great in RF

Erstad and Pods are well below average in LF.

How is Erstad below avg. in LF?

CaptainBallz

02-26-2007, 10:46 AM

Please explain how the entire pitching staff sucking was on Anderson not hitting well the first 1/2 of the season?

I didn't say it was on Anderson. I was saying that the fact that the pitching was abysmal helped to take some of the heat off the whole Anderson/Mack/Ozzie foolishness that DID cost some games last season.

For some reason, Erstad starting on opening day seems like we're in for more of the same b.s. I truly hope we're not, but that doesn't take away from the fact that they still have a C+ crew for the outfield.

the fluffer

02-26-2007, 10:49 AM

How is Erstad below avg. in LF?

Statistically.

I'm lazy and don't really feel like looking up the stats, but putting Erstad up agsaist full-time AL leftfielders, he is well below average over the past 3-4 seasons. I've seen it, can't remember where... but... His stats over the past few years go up against Coco Crisp, Shannon Stewart, Raul Ibanez, Carl Crawford, David Dejesus, Emil Brown, Garret Anderson, Craig Monroe, Scott Podsednik, Carlos Lee, Hideki Matsui, Melky Cabrera, Manny Ramirez, etc...

1951Campbell

02-26-2007, 10:53 AM

Manager Ozzie Guillen said he has stressed restraint to Podsednik but confirmed that his leadoff batter is recovering quickly. Guillen hinted that right-handed hitter Pablo Ozuna could lead off on Opening Day against Cleveland left-hander C.C. Sabathia, with Darin Erstad starting in center. Erstad said his right ankle feels fine after surgery last October to remove bone spurs. Ozuna is a .391 lifetime hitter (9-for-23) against Sabathia.

I interpreted that quote to mean that Ozzie was only taking advantage of the match-up of Ozuna v. Sabathia, not setting in stone a "Pablo leads off, plays left until things get sorted out" line-up.

But perhaps I am overly optimistic.

1951Campbell

02-26-2007, 10:54 AM

Efilnikufesin

02-26-2007, 10:55 AM

I didn't say it was on Anderson. I was saying that the fact that the pitching was abysmal helped to take some of the heat off the whole Anderson/Mack/Ozzie foolishness that DID cost some games last season.

For some reason, Erstad starting on opening day seems like we're in for more of the same b.s. I truly hope we're not, but that doesn't take away from the fact that they still have a C+ crew for the outfield.

I agree then, I think Anderson should have been out there alot more than he was all of last year.

I actually would not mind Erstad starting opening day.. Anderson had a tough 06, last thing we want is to have him start off hitting against the likes of CC. As long as Anderson is the Starting and gets 450abs.. I think we are in good shape.

Efilnikufesin

02-26-2007, 10:56 AM

QFT

QFT.. means?

Palehose13

02-26-2007, 10:57 AM

Anderson is good all around player.. I don't know exactly what you expect.. KEn Griffey numbers?

No, but I would like him to be farther away from the Mendoza line. I would like an average at least in the .270 range.

1951Campbell

02-26-2007, 10:57 AM

QFT.. means?

Quoted for truth. :thumbsup:

1951Campbell

02-26-2007, 10:58 AM

Statistically.

I'm lazy and don't really feel like looking up the stats, but putting Erstad up agsaist full-time AL leftfielders, he is well below average over the past 3-4 seasons. I've seen it, can't remember where... but... His stats over the past few years go up against Coco Crisp, Shannon Stewart, Raul Ibanez, Carl Crawford, David Dejesus, Emil Brown, Garret Anderson, Craig Monroe, Scott Podsednik, Carlos Lee, Hideki Matsui, Melky Cabrera, Manny Ramirez, etc...

Silver lining: I saw somewhere that he hits about .350 lifetime at the Cell. :shrug:

fquaye14ten

02-26-2007, 11:01 AM

How is Erstad below avg. in LF?

not only is he below average offensively (at least since 2000), since 2002 he's played like 90 games in the outfield.

Injuries, inconsistent offense, question marks about his ability to play the outfield?

Below average

Efilnikufesin

02-26-2007, 11:05 AM

No, but I would like him to be farther away from the Mendoza line. I would like an average at least in the .270 range.

Given proper Ab's I don't see that being an issue this year.

Also thank you 1951.

Efilnikufesin

02-26-2007, 11:05 AM

not only is he below average offensively (at least since 2000), since 2002 he's played like 90 games in the outfield.

Injuries, inconsistent offense, question marks about his ability to play the outfield?

Below average

Hense why we signed him to play as a back-up role.. Not a starter.

fquaye14ten

02-26-2007, 11:07 AM

Dye is good.. Lets not get ahead of ourselves now..

Anderson is good all around player.. I don't know exactly what you expect.. KEn Griffey numbers?

Pods is a below Avg def, decent lead off hitter for the price. Which makes Anderson in CF, that much more needed for D.

Erstad and Osuna are decent back-ups.. Let us not forget that Rob Mac can play both Corner OF spots.

I don't see how this is even close to a concern.

QFT

Oh come on. You all know I am not a dark cloud but this is ridiculous.

Anderson is a good DEFENSIVE player. Yes he had stretches where he was hitting well last year but he also had stretches where he was hitting abysmally. Everyone points at Ventura, and yes Robin started slow. But look at Crede, who hit well when he came up first only to stumble into a quagmire. Anderson could be good, or we could get another season of .230 ball. You don't have to be Ken Griffey Jr. to be better than that.

Pods is a shitty defensive LF and he has been more fucking shaky than anyone I can think of at the plate. If he can't steal (which he hasn't been able to since the first half of 2005) he's almost utterly worthless as a leadoff hitter since he has almost no power.

Erstad is a decent bench player. I have no beef with that. BUT HE IS NOT GOING TO BE A BENCH PLAYER as long as Pods in unhealthy. This is a concern.

Ozuna is a decent back-up the way Mack is a decent back-up: he hits well, but HE CAN NOT PLAY A GOOD OF.

This is a huge concern. We have the EXACT SAME PROBLEMS we had last year in OF, except that Erstad SHOULD be starting over Pods, which upgrades us (hopefully, depending on Erstad's health---which is a big variable) defensively in left. If you don't think the OF was a problem last year, I don't know what the fuck.

Look---I don't think we're going to miss the playoffs this year. I really don't. I simply think our outfield is a huge weakness, and to imply that Erstad, Pods, and Ozuna are the answer to the "how do we spell Anderson or account for him struggling at the plate?" question is silly, imo

LuvSox

02-26-2007, 11:08 AM

not only is he below average offensively (at least since 2000), since 2002 he's played like 90 games in the outfield.

Injuries, inconsistent offense, question marks about his ability to play the outfield?

Below average

I think he'll be able to handle LF. He doesn't appear to be a slacker. I hate to say that word, grinder, but he's got a good attitude about the situation.
Blind faith I guess, we'll see.

fquaye14ten

02-26-2007, 11:08 AM

Hense why we signed him to play as a back-up role.. Not a starter.

except that he will be starting the season as a starter, and to tell the truth, given what Pods is probably going to put up this year, Erstad SHOULD be starting.

This is not a happy situation

fquaye14ten

02-26-2007, 11:08 AM

I think he'll be able to handle LF. He doesn't appear to be a slacker. I hate to say that word, grinder, but he's got a good attitude about the situation.
Blind faith I guess, we'll see.

I have no doubt he'll leave his balls on the field.

However, there's a reason he has played 1B and DH for the past 4 years

Efilnikufesin

02-26-2007, 11:11 AM

except that he will be starting the season as a starter, and to tell the truth, given what Pods is probably going to put up this year, Erstad SHOULD be starting.

This is not a happy situation

Erstad, Osuna and Mac would all be sharing the roles IMO till pods gets back.

Efilnikufesin

02-26-2007, 11:12 AM

I have no doubt he'll leave his balls on the field.

However, there's a reason he has played 1B and DH for the past 4 years

BEcause LAA didn't have anyone else to play the position.. And they had a overcrowded outfield of Guillen, Anderson, and Vladdy.

samram

02-26-2007, 11:13 AM

bitch about Anderson all you want... bitch about the pitching staff all you want...

Brian Anderson was doomed from the start of the season. Opening day he tore the cover off of the ball and almost decapitated Jason Michaels in leftfield on two seperate occasions with screaming line drives, not to mention making some amazing plays in centerfield. So what does Ozzie do? Benches him for two straight games to give Mackowack playing time. Anyone who actually expected Brian Anderson to develop as a major league hitter while platooning with Mackowiak is kidding themselves.

Don't blame BA or the pitching staff. Blame Ozzie.

Half right. You can't excuse the pitching staff- they were pretty inadequate for a good chunk of the season. However, I would blame Ozzie for Anderson's lack of development. The kid was hitting ninth in a lineup that was tearing the cover off the ball- it was a perfect situation to let the kid struggle because his struggles weren't affecting the rest of the offense and he was catching everything. Instead, Ozzie puts undue pressure on the kid by making everyday a tryout and then platooning him with a guy who couldn't play dead in CF and had all of 23 RBI in 225 ABs.

CaptainBallz

02-26-2007, 11:13 AM

I agree then, I think Anderson should have been out there alot more than he was all of last year.

I actually would not mind Erstad starting opening day.. Anderson had a tough 06, last thing we want is to have him start off hitting against the likes of CC. As long as Anderson is the Starting and gets 450abs.. I think we are in good shape.

I guess the question is, when is BA going to be treated like a big boy and given his AB's? My trust has been a little bit shaken about Ozzie doing what's best for BA. He seemed to be doing rather well in the second half last season and was still pined for what increasingly seemed like no reason whatsoever. Now, was his improved performance because of this or in spite of this? Who knows?
But if the plan is to go into the season with Anderson as the starter in CF then he should be out there opening day and allowed to take his AB's,IMHO.

fquaye14ten

02-26-2007, 11:14 AM

Erstad, Osuna and Mac would all be sharing the roles IMO till pods gets back.

I guess you miss my point.

Erstad is a capable backup at any position in the OF (assuming his range hasn't completely left him with his knee injuries). However he shouldn't be starting.

Anderson is a great defensive outfielder who deserves to be starting in CF no matter what he does offensively. However, he will most likely give us mediocre, at best offensive production.

Pods is a mediocre at best leadoff hitter who plays such awful d in left that he should not be STARTING for any major league team in the OF.

Mackowiack is a solid bench hitter who gives us lousy OF defense.

So is Ozuna.

So we have four players to fill our two OF spots. Only one of them deserves to be an every day MLB player---and of course that one guy is not someone we can expect to be a solid hitter.

Of the remaining three, only one of them can we hope for decent defense out of.

This is not a good situation

fquaye14ten

02-26-2007, 11:15 AM

BEcause LAA didn't have anyone else to play the position.. And they had a overcrowded outfield of Guillen, Anderson, and Vladdy.

Guillen's not been there for a long site. Erstad is a gold glove winner. Don't you think if he had any semblance of the range he once had scioscia would have found a way to get him out there?

Time's going to tell, but I really don't think it's coincidence Erstad has been relegated mostly to DH and 1B

fquaye14ten

02-26-2007, 11:16 AM

I guess the question is, when is BA going to be treated like a big boy and given his AB's? My trust has been a little bit shaken about Ozzie doing what's best for BA. He seemed to be doing rather well in the second half last season and was still pined for what increasingly seemed like no reason whatsoever. Now was his improved performance because of this or in spite of this? Who knows?
But if the plan is to go into the season with Anderson as the starter in CF then he should be out there opening day and allowed to take his AB's,IMHO.

Well, we don't know what was going on in the clubhouse. It does seem counterproductive to get the kid MLB experience but not allow him to have consistency. It was as if they said "you're our CF of the future" then by May they said "we thought you were going to hit .300. You're lucky we don't send you back to single A"

Efilnikufesin

02-26-2007, 11:20 AM

Oh come on. You all know I am not a dark cloud but this is ridiculous.

Anderson is a good DEFENSIVE player. Yes he had stretches where he was hitting well last year but he also had stretches where he was hitting abysmally. Everyone points at Ventura, and yes Robin started slow. But look at Crede, who hit well when he came up first only to stumble into a quagmire. Anderson could be good, or we could get another season of .230 ball. You don't have to be Ken Griffey Jr. to be better than that.

Pods is a shitty defensive LF and he has been more fucking shaky than anyone I can think of at the plate. If he can't steal (which he hasn't been able to since the first half of 2005) he's almost utterly worthless as a leadoff hitter since he has almost no power.

Erstad is a decent bench player. I have no beef with that. BUT HE IS NOT GOING TO BE A BENCH PLAYER as long as Pods in unhealthy. This is a concern.

Ozuna is a decent back-up the way Mack is a decent back-up: he hits well, but HE CAN NOT PLAY A GOOD OF.

This is a huge concern. We have the EXACT SAME PROBLEMS we had last year in OF, except that Erstad SHOULD be starting over Pods, which upgrades us (hopefully, depending on Erstad's health---which is a big variable) defensively in left. If you don't think the OF was a problem last year, I don't know what the fuck.

Look---I don't think we're going to miss the playoffs this year. I really don't. I simply think our outfield is a huge weakness, and to imply that Erstad, Pods, and Ozuna are the answer to the "how do we spell Anderson or account for him struggling at the plate?" question is silly, imo

Actually I know nothing about you.. I am new.

Crede hit well when he first came up? I don't know about that.. He struggled most of the season to turn it on in August and Sept to make it look decent. Until the following April when we all thought he turned the corner to see more of that long swing and more pop-ups on the inf. We were patience with him.. we need to be with Anderson.. We need Anderson to be the player we think he can be otherwise we are screwed.

Pods, I agree 100% on.. But, after the offseason signing.. at 2.9mil we got ourselves a steal. There was no way I wanted to pay that much and that many years on guys that are equal if not below Pods..But, that is just me. Who would you have went after this offseason to solve this problem?

Mac, plays decent enough Corner to not be any worse than Pods..

No, I don't think OF was a problem.. The OF was not on the mound everyday throwing up BP to the American league hitters. If Ozzie would have left BA out there everyday.. he hits .250 by the end of the year, and we are all signing his praises.

Efilnikufesin

02-26-2007, 11:21 AM

Guillen's not been there for a long site. Erstad is a gold glove winner. Don't you think if he had any semblance of the range he once had scioscia would have found a way to get him out there?

Time's going to tell, but I really don't think it's coincidence Erstad has been relegated mostly to DH and 1B

Who plays 1b then for LAA?

the fluffer

02-26-2007, 11:25 AM

Who plays 1b then for LAA?

The Angels signed Shea Hillenbrand to play 1B.

Efilnikufesin

02-26-2007, 11:26 AM

The Angels signed Shea Hillenbrand to play 1B.

Yes, I know that.. But.. Going into 03/04/05 time.. who plays it I was asking. Last Year one of their "stud" spects was suppose to be able to take over.. and well that never happened.

fquaye14ten

02-26-2007, 11:27 AM

Actually I know nothing about you.. I am new. now you do

Crede hit well when he first came up? I don't know about that.. He struggled most of the season to turn it on in August and Sept to make it look decent. Until the following April when we all thought he turned the corner to see more of that long swing and more pop-ups on the inf. We were patience with him.. we need to be with Anderson.. We need Anderson to be the player we think he can be otherwise we are screwed.

Crede hit well in his first partial season, to the tune of .280. I've never once advocated Anderson to be benched. He forms a strong part of our defensive outfield. However, at this point he must be considered a weakness in the lineup.

Pods, I agree 100% on.. But, after the offseason signing.. at 2.9mil we got ourselves a steal. There was no way I wanted to pay that much and that many years on guys that are equal if not below Pods..But, that is just me. Who would you have went after this offseason to solve this problem?

It's not a matter of whom I would have gone after. I simply am stating that I think our players we have our weak. Pods is weak. I don't know that there was anyone out there better, but given Pods's defensive capabilities I have to think there was.

Mac, plays decent enough Corner to not be any worse than Pods..

talk about damning with faint praise!:D

No, I don't think OF was a problem.. The OF was not on the mound everyday throwing up BP to the American league hitters. If Ozzie would have left BA out there everyday.. he hits .250 by the end of the year, and we are all signing his praises.
this is a straw man. Pitching was, of course, the major problem. However, when you have bad pitching, it's not a good thing when your CF and LF can't catch a cold. If our 2007 pitching is going to be more like our 2006 pitching than our 2005 pitching (and it will, bullpen notwithstanding) then we need to take care of our defense. Our infield defense was solid in 06. Our OF was not.

Erstad was a step in the right direction. However, I can't say I'm confident that he is the same defensive presence in OF that he was prior to his knee injuries. Meanwhile, even if he IS healthy, do you think we'll see an everyday OF of Erstad, Anderson, Dye? Unlikely. Ozzie's already shown that he thinks Erstad is our CF. Erstad is not as good as BA in CF, so an OF of Pods, Erstad, Dye, while being a slight improvement over the frequent Pods, Mack, Dye we saw last year is by no means an improvement over the more frequent Pods, BA, Dye.

OF should be our #1 concern now that pitching is pretty much set. We can't make Burly, Jonny, Jose, and Vazzy pitch well. They're going to be there. Period. We can't make our fifth starter be solid. However, we CAN put out the best defensive OF we can so that if the pitchers do struggle we won't give away the precious few outs they get.

fquaye14ten

02-26-2007, 11:27 AM

Who plays 1b then for LAA?

1B? how about....anyone?

For instance, how about their weakest defensive OF?

oh wait...that was Erstad (and Garret Anderson isn't exactly a world beater)

1951Campbell

02-26-2007, 11:50 AM

Oh come on. You all know I am not a dark cloud but this is ridiculous...

Look---I don't think we're going to miss the playoffs this year. I really don't. I simply think our outfield is a huge weakness, and to imply that Erstad, Pods, and Ozuna are the answer to the "how do we spell Anderson or account for him struggling at the plate?" question is silly, imo

Oh, I'm not saying you're a Dark Cloud. I think I'm just a bit more sanguine about the OF. Erstad is talking like he's mended. Ozzie has said Mack will not play CF. Pods can be an adventure out there but he's still a pretty good bargain, and Ozzie thinks his recovery is going well. BA did manage to raise his batting average by 50 points last year once he got rolling, and a gain that big so late is no easy feat. And standing quietly in RF while all this controversy swirls is Dye.

"Huge weakness" is an exaggeration, I think. Right now, I'd say it's an area that needs to be watched, but I'm not pulling my hair out over it, unlike watching the bullpen last year. Plus, we've got some pretty good OF prospects.

fquaye14ten

02-26-2007, 11:53 AM

Oh, I'm not saying you're a Dark Cloud. I think I'm just a bit more sanguine about the OF. Erstad is talking like he's mended. Ozzie has said Mack will not play CF. Pods can be an adventure out there but he's still a pretty good bargain, and Ozzie thinks his recovery is going well. BA did manage to raise his batting average by 50 points last year once he got rolling, and a gain that big so late is no easy feat. And standing quietly in RF while all this controversy swirls is Dye.

"Huge weakness" is an exaggeration, I think. Right now, I'd say it's an area that needs to be watched, but I'm not pulling my hair out over it, unlike watching the bullpen last year. Plus, we've got some pretty good OF prospects.

Erstad says what he'll say. But knee injuries don't just clear up.

Pods is an adventure. He's an all right bat off the bench but he'll likely start the majority in right with Erstad in center if Ozzie can get away with it. I think that's a downgrade over our situation last year.

I like our outfield next year andmany years down the road because, like you, I think we have great prospects. But right now we are looking at an everyday outfield come July of Pods, Erstad, and Dye with Anderson off the bench....I don't love that. Plus our depth is sorely lacking.

I truly believe that Ozuna and Mack have no business stepping into the outfield......and that's basically our only option if someone goes down. I doubt Sweeney or Owens are ready for regular playing time this year.

Efilnikufesin

02-26-2007, 11:55 AM

1B? how about....anyone?

For instance, how about their weakest defensive OF?

oh wait...that was Erstad (and Garret Anderson isn't exactly a world beater)

So you think you can take any OF and convert them to a 1b.. Is that what you are stating?

1951Campbell

02-26-2007, 11:59 AM

Erstad says what he'll say. But knee injuries don't just clear up.

Pods is an adventure. He's an all right bat off the bench but he'll likely start the majority in right with Erstad in center if Ozzie can get away with it. I think that's a downgrade over our situation last year.

I like our outfield next year andmany years down the road because, like you, I think we have great prospects. But right now we are looking at an everyday outfield come July of Pods, Erstad, and Dye with Anderson off the bench....I don't love that. Plus our depth is sorely lacking.

I truly believe that Ozuna and Mack have no business stepping into the outfield......and that's basically our only option if someone goes down. I doubt Sweeney or Owens are ready for regular playing time this year.

See, I just get the sense that it's gonna be Pods-BA-Dye, with Erstad off the bench. Obviously, it's too early to say with any certainty.

Mack would not worry me too much in LF.

Ozuna, well, he'll probably misplay some easy balls, and he's LF only, but he's got an amazing knack for making things happen offensively. Until that horseshoe falls out of his ass, I can survive him out there once or twice a fortnight.

fquaye14ten

02-26-2007, 12:06 PM

So you think you can take any OF and convert them to a 1b.. Is that what you are stating?

Pretty much. As a guy who played first base my entire baseball career, that's more or less what I'm saying.

You put your best defensive outfielders in the outfield. You don't worry as much who's at first base.

Without you oversimplifying my argument, precisely what I'm saying is: if Erstad were a better OFer than anyone in that outfield (and Guillen and Anderson weren't exactly worldbeaters) than Scioscia wouldn't have worried about who was at 1B, he would have found a way to get Erstad into the OF

the fluffer

02-26-2007, 12:07 PM

See, I just get the sense that it's gonna be Pods-BA-Dye, with Erstad off the bench. Obviously, it's too early to say with any certainty.

Mack would not worry me too much in LF.

Ozuna, well, he'll probably misplay some easy balls, and he's LF only, but he's got an amazing knack for making things happen offensively. Until that horseshoe falls out of his ass, I can survive him out there once or twice a fortnight.

Ozuna's outfield defense improved dramatically late least season. Granted he's no Ichiro, but I don't think that he is the defensive liability he once was.

Mackowiak proved last season that he is a passable reserve OF for the corner spots and if used properly, he can really help out... Erstad is a nice guy to have around in the same capacity as Ozuna and Mackowack... but the big questions are all surrounding Pods.

Everyone is so down on him in this thread. I think he is going to surprise us this year and put up decent numbers. With the tone Ozzie has set with his comments regarding the leadoff spot (focus more on OBP and not stealing bases), I think that the pressure may be off Pods to steal 80 bases like us fans were/are expecting.

If Pods can provide 500 ABs, and hit 280 and get on base at a clip in the neighborhood of 330... it will be a big year for Pods in terms of the most important stat... RUNS SCORED.

fquaye14ten

02-26-2007, 12:07 PM

Efilnikufesin

02-26-2007, 12:15 PM

now you do

Crede hit well in his first partial season, to the tune of .280. I've never once advocated Anderson to be benched. He forms a strong part of our defensive outfield. However, at this point he must be considered a weakness in the lineup.

It's not a matter of whom I would have gone after. I simply am stating that I think our players we have our weak. Pods is weak. I don't know that there was anyone out there better, but given Pods's defensive capabilities I have to think there was.

talk about damning with faint praise!:D

this is a straw man. Pitching was, of course, the major problem. However, when you have bad pitching, it's not a good thing when your CF and LF can't catch a cold. If our 2007 pitching is going to be more like our 2006 pitching than our 2005 pitching (and it will, bullpen notwithstanding) then we need to take care of our defense. Our infield defense was solid in 06. Our OF was not.

Erstad was a step in the right direction. However, I can't say I'm confident that he is the same defensive presence in OF that he was prior to his knee injuries. Meanwhile, even if he IS healthy, do you think we'll see an everyday OF of Erstad, Anderson, Dye? Unlikely. Ozzie's already shown that he thinks Erstad is our CF. Erstad is not as good as BA in CF, so an OF of Pods, Erstad, Dye, while being a slight improvement over the frequent Pods, Mack, Dye we saw last year is by no means an improvement over the more frequent Pods, BA, Dye.

OF should be our #1 concern now that pitching is pretty much set. We can't make Burly, Jonny, Jose, and Vazzy pitch well. They're going to be there. Period. We can't make our fifth starter be solid. However, we CAN put out the best defensive OF we can so that if the pitchers do struggle we won't give away the precious few outs they get.

I have no idea where to begin..

I would consider Uribe more of a weakness then Anderson.. Low away slider with two pitches.. Uribe.. He Gawn

You are stating that we have the same problem as last year.. Meaning there was someone out there, that makes us better.. Who is it? Who would have you gotten to replace one of our OF?

pods was the only issue with OF def.. Mac is never playing CF again.. Problem solved.

We are not asking Erstad to be the GG CF he once was.. we are asking him to play LF and some CF maybe 50-60 games total.. Anymore than we have bigger issues.

Umm we can't our 5th be soild.. I don't know what that means.. Don't tell me you are one of those people who thinks the McCarthy trade was bad do you? I like Floyd out of the 5th hole, I see about 12-14 wins and ERA around 4ish. I think my main concern is Garland bump up in the rotation and can Mark locate his pitches again.. # 5 is the least of my worries.

the fluffer

02-26-2007, 12:24 PM

I have no idea where to begin..

I would consider Uribe more of a weakness then Anderson.. Low away slider with two pitches.. Uribe.. He Gawn

Every batter has their weakness. Anderson, high fastballs. Thome, sweeping sliders. Konerko, changeups. Crede, off-speed low in the zone. JD, inside fastballs.

The issue with Uribe is the inability to take pitches. Anderson has proven to demonstrate a semblance of plate discipline when he is successful with the bat. If Uribe could learn strike zone judgement, he'd be dangerous - but he continues to be stubborn in that regard. Personally, I eagerly await the Sox decision to "move in a new direction with the shortstop position".

fquaye14ten

02-26-2007, 01:05 PM

I have no idea where to begin..

I would consider Uribe more of a weakness then Anderson.. Low away slider with two pitches.. Uribe.. He Gawn

sure Uribe's as much, if not more, of a weakness than Anderson. How exactly is that supposed to make me feel more confident about our OF?

You are stating that we have the same problem as last year.. Meaning there was someone out there, that makes us better.. Who is it? Who would have you gotten to replace one of our OF?
I never said that there was someone out there. I merely said I'm not confident in our OF b/c there are the exact same problems as last year. I could just as easily say that about our pitching rotation even though I feel like Kenny made the right moves. Our rotation has the same problems as last year. Only problem is, there's more potential for improvement in our pitching. Sure, Anderson will improve, but Erstad/Pods will likely not. And if we see the outfield I'm predicting Ozzie to run out there of Pods/Erstad/Dye we will actually probably see a huge decline in OF ability, especially since there's almost no way Dye will put up the same #'s as last year.

Why do you insist that just because I am unconfident in our OF this year, that that means I'm saying it's Kenny's fault? I'm not. I just think we have a pretty mediocre to lousy outfield and we didn't do much to improve it.

pods was the only issue with OF def.. Mac is never playing CF again.. Problem solved.

BZZT. Problem not solved. Pods won't be playing for a while, which means who spells Anderson (assuming Ozzie even lets the kid play)? I know a lot of you think that Ozuna can handle CF, but I bet a lot of you thought Mack could handle CF last year. Fuck that. Ozuna has not shown me he can be anything more than a barely adequate replacement corner OF (in the IF though I honestly love him and I love him as a bat off the bench, just NOT IN THE OF)

We are not asking Erstad to be the GG CF he once was.. we are asking him to play LF and some CF maybe 50-60 games total.. Anymore than we have bigger issues.

Except that he's the better option than Pods in left as of now. If he plays center, he had better be approaching that GG, because we've seen what mediocre defensive CF can do. I don't see Erstad/injured Pods as a huge upgrade over No Erstad/healthy Pods in 06. I don't know how you do either.

Umm we can't our 5th be soild.. I don't know what that means.. Don't tell me you are one of those people who thinks the McCarthy trade was bad do you? I like Floyd out of the 5th hole, I see about 12-14 wins and ERA around 4ish. I think my main concern is Garland bump up in the rotation and can Mark locate his pitches again.. # 5 is the least of my worries.

No I love the McCarthy trade. Honestly I do. But our 5th wasn't solid last year, and we didn't really upgrade this year did we? I never said our 5th won't be solid. I hope he will. But what I was saying in my post was that we can't control how our pitchers perform. We can control who we put out behind him, and unless Ozzie can pull his head out his ass re: BA any and all pitchers who struggle early are going to be apt to go in funks once balls start dropping over Ozuna or a hobbling Erstad in CF

maurice

02-26-2007, 06:40 PM

RF: Nothing new here.

LF: A platoon of Erstad / Ozuna could outperform 2006 Podsednik. Look at their recent splits. Even if he's lost several steps, Erstad probably is better defensively than Podsednik. Ozuna should be improving defensively with more OF experience.

CF: No Mackowiak in 2007. :rock: If Anderson improves at all (or even just maintains his post-mid-June level), the Sox are stronger in CF. Sweeney and Owens are 1 year closer to their MLB potential (whatever that may be).

- - -

The problem is that Guillen might decide to overplay Podsednki and Erstad, even if they're struggling.
:mad:

fquaye14ten

02-26-2007, 06:42 PM

The problem is that Guillen might decide to overplay Podsednki and Erstad, even if they're struggling.
:mad:

Bingo. I look at Erstad and see a guy Ozzie will develop an excessive man crush on.

I think if BA struggles at the plate early we're going to see an OF of Pods/Erstad/Dye.

If that's not the case we are better than last year. If not, we're much worse

1951Campbell

02-26-2007, 07:06 PM

Bingo. I look at Erstad and see a guy Ozzie will develop an excessive man crush on.

Crap, I forgot about the Ozzie man-crush factor. :eek:

fquaye14ten

02-26-2007, 07:31 PM

Crap, I forgot about the Ozzie man-crush factor. :eek:

never forget about the ozzie mancrush

1951Campbell

02-26-2007, 07:35 PM

never forget about the ozzie mancrush

Or Ozzie getting pissed that his BFF didn't sit with him at lunch. See: Anderson, Brian.

Efilnikufesin

02-26-2007, 08:30 PM

sure Uribe's as much, if not more, of a weakness than Anderson. How exactly is that supposed to make me feel more confident about our OF?

Uribehits anything They have to pitch to Anderson.. IMO Uribe is more of an isseu than anyone of our OFs.. Outside of LF

I never said that there was someone out there. I merely said I'm not confident in our OF b/c there are the exact same problems as last year. I could just as easily say that about our pitching rotation even though I feel like Kenny made the right moves. Our rotation has the same problems as last year. Only problem is, there's more potential for improvement in our pitching. Sure, Anderson will improve, but Erstad/Pods will likely not. And if we see the outfield I'm predicting Ozzie to run out there of Pods/Erstad/Dye we will actually probably see a huge decline in OF ability, especially since there's almost no way Dye will put up the same #'s as last year.

I agree, on Dye..
Anderson will play the majority of the games due to 2 key factors.. his play and Erstad health.
Sorry, it seems your bitching because kenny didn't improve the OF, yet can't tell me what he can do to fix it.. makes no sense.

Why do you insist that just because I am unconfident in our OF this year, that that means I'm saying it's Kenny's fault? I'm not. I just think we have a pretty mediocre to lousy outfield and we didn't do much to improve it.

Yes, We know you don't like the OF.. but how was KW suppose to improve on it?

BZZT. Problem not solved. Pods won't be playing for a while, which means who spells Anderson (assuming Ozzie even lets the kid play)? I know a lot of you think that Ozuna can handle CF, but I bet a lot of you thought Mack could handle CF last year. Fuck that. Ozuna has not shown me he can be anything more than a barely adequate replacement corner OF (in the IF though I honestly love him and I love him as a bat off the bench, just NOT IN THE OF)

Where did I say Osana can handle CF.. Hell if I had my way he only be backing up The INF. Estad in CF and one of the other two in LF.. its not that hard to figure out.

Except that he's the better option than Pods in left as of now. If he plays center, he had better be approaching that GG, because we've seen what mediocre defensive CF can do. I don't see Erstad/injured Pods as a huge upgrade over No Erstad/healthy Pods in 06. I don't know how you do either.

WEll DUH.. POds is injured of course he is the better option.. :thumbsup:
Pods was not healthy for the better part of 06.. So your options are..
06 Half asses Pods/ Osuna
07 Half ass Pods/ Erstad..

I take option b Alex.. Easy White Sox trivia for 400..

No I love the McCarthy trade. Honestly I do. But our 5th wasn't solid last year, and we didn't really upgrade this year did we? I never said our 5th won't be solid. I hope he will. But what I was saying in my post was that we can't control how our pitchers perform. We can control who we put out behind him, and unless Ozzie can pull his head out his ass re: BA any and all pitchers who struggle early are going to be apt to go in funks once balls start dropping over Ozuna or a hobbling Erstad in CF

I don't see how 06 was bad for the 5th Starter.. We threw the same guy out there every 5th day and he complied 200 innings. That is more than we can say about 05, 04,03..etc. Vazquez towards the end looked amazing.. It was due to lack of Run support that he had the record he did.. And Floyd, I have a great feeling from him..My main concern is #2 and # 3 in the rotation. Can you name me a better #5 option from 06 than Vazquez? I pretty sure you are not sold on Floyd.. Yet.

Efilnikufesin

02-26-2007, 08:48 PM

I hate posts like this. Just an observation.

Carry on. :whistle:

What do you mean?

fquaye14ten

02-27-2007, 12:43 AM

...sputtering...

you keep missing the point. the point is I'm not optimistic about our OF this year, especially with Ozzie in charge of lineup shuffling.

Efilnikufesin

02-27-2007, 07:09 AM

you keep missing the point. the point is I'm not optimistic about our OF this year, especially with Ozzie in charge of lineup shuffling.

I got the point.. you want to bitch about the OF.. We all get that.. What I want is how could KW made it better for you. You are quick to point out the problem, but fail to give us a better solution.

Myrtle

02-27-2007, 09:08 AM

I got the point.. you want to bitch about the OF.. We all get that.. What I want is how could KW made it better for you. You are quick to point out the problem, but fail to give us a better solution.

He's fquaye, that's how he works - he's got a solution somewhere in his head, he just doesn't like to say it because he wants us all to think he's an ass.

Lucifer

02-27-2007, 09:11 AM

I could think of ways to improve the OF but unfortunately the xbox doesnt work in the real world. I look at it this way, the sddition of Erstad gives us more depth then we had last year so KW did improve the OF. Thing about BA is he is young and you wont know exactly what ya have with him in just one season. Last thing I want the Sox to do is take a page out of the Chubs book and give away young talent for mediocre washed up has beens. Theres always gonna be growing pains with young talent.

Between Pods and Erstad, LF should be just fine.

fquaye14ten

02-27-2007, 09:15 AM

I got the point.. you want to bitch about the OF.. We all get that.. What I want is how could KW made it better for you. You are quick to point out the problem, but fail to give us a better solution.

ok you want my fucking solution?

FIND A FUCKING ADEQUATE DEFENSIVE REPLACEMENT IN THE OUTFIELD THAT ISN'T A HUGE QUESTION MARK HEALTH-WISE

There are plenty of light hitting adequate defenders in the mlb. Whether they can hit or not is up for debate. But shit, even Timo would be a better option than Pods, Ozuna, or Mackowiack in CF.

But Kenny didn't want to do that. Instead he went and signed a huge question mark in Erstad because he has always loved the way Erstad plays the game. Will that pay off in the long run? I don't know. But smart money says probably not.

Goddamnit, I did not want to criticize Kenny since I think he really does know what he's doing. But since you refuse to just admit that the OF is a glaring weakness and accuse me of bullshitting, this is what it has come to.

Efilnikufesin

02-27-2007, 09:29 AM

ok you want my fucking solution?

FIND A FUCKING ADEQUATE DEFENSIVE REPLACEMENT IN THE OUTFIELD THAT ISN'T A HUGE QUESTION MARK HEALTH-WISE

There are plenty of light hitting adequate defenders in the mlb. Whether they can hit or not is up for debate. But shit, even Timo would be a better option than Pods, Ozuna, or Mackowiack in CF.

But Kenny didn't want to do that. Instead he went and signed a huge question mark in Erstad because he has always loved the way Erstad plays the game. Will that pay off in the long run? I don't know. But smart money says probably not.

Goddamnit, I did not want to criticize Kenny since I think he really does know what he's doing. But since you refuse to just admit that the OF is a glaring weakness and accuse me of bullshitting, this is what it has come to.

Again, all you are doing is bitching at What KW did not do.. Not giving a solution, to what you call the biggest problem on the team.

Who Did you want to have play LF.. and no more dancing with the stars answers.. straight forward..

fquaye14ten

02-27-2007, 09:40 AM

Again, all you are doing is bitching at What KW did not do.. Not giving a solution, to what you call the biggest problem on the team.

Who Did you want to have play LF.. and no more dancing with the stars answers.. straight forward..

Did you hear what I said? Anyone who can play CF.

Let's see, no "dancing with the stars" this time, Mr. Leno. Free agents who would have been better than Erstad:

Dave Roberts
David Delucci

Hell, even Steve Finley and Kenny Lofton would have been better options from a defense standpoint

This is from mlbtraderumors

Darin Erstad - Erstad returned to center field for 27 games this year, and it's hard to get a read on how far his defense has fallen since his 2002 Gold Glove season out there. He's 32 now and is earning $8.5MM. An ankle injury put him on the DL this season two separate times. Given his below average bat and shaky ankle, all the grittiness in the world wouldn't make him a good signing for '07 and beyond. The Rox are interested even after their acquisition of Willy Taveras.

This is essentially what I'm saying. Make a move for someone who can just flat out play center field. Even if he's not an every day player. Right now we have NO PLAYER who I am confident can play CF adequately when BA is not in the lineup.

Am I still dancing with the stars here?

Hell even Kenny tried to go after Taveras in the Garland trade. He knew that CF was a position that we were weak in depth in last year. Unfortunately he couldn't get him.

Just because Kenny tried and failed doesn't make Kenny wrong.

However, it doesn't mean that his last ditched attempt to plug that hole with Erstad is an adequate solution either.

Time will certainly tell, but a guy as banged up as Erstad does not inspire confidence in me. Bitch bitch bitch that's all I ever do:rolleyes:

Efilnikufesin

02-27-2007, 09:52 AM

Wait can you make up your mind on which is a worse position.. CF or LF.. You keep jumping around, first it was LF DEF now its CF.. Can we stay on topic..

Which is worse CF or LF Def.

fquaye14ten

02-27-2007, 09:56 AM

Wait can you make up your mind on which is a worse position.. CF or LF.. You keep jumping around, first it was LF DEF now its CF.. Can we stay on topic..

Which is worse CF or LF Def.

lol i guess when you're beat you lash out.

I'm disappointed because LF defense is only marginally upgraded from its disgraceful state in 06. I'm also disappointed b/c CF defense is not at all upgraded (except for the promise that Mackowiack's defense will be replaced by a slightly less disgraceful CF replacement...of course that promise is offset by the very real possibility that ozzie will decide to put erstad in CF full time and use Pods as full time left fielder...which will neutralize any potential upgrade in left erstad brings)

try to keep up.

Efilnikufesin

02-27-2007, 10:02 AM

lol i guess when you're beat you lash out.

I'm disappointed because LF defense is only marginally upgraded from its disgraceful state in 06. I'm also disappointed b/c CF defense is not at all upgraded (except for the promise that Mackowiack's defense will be replaced by a slightly less disgraceful CF replacement...of course that promise is offset by the very real possibility that ozzie will decide to put erstad in CF full time and use Pods as full time left fielder...which will neutralize any potential upgrade in left erstad brings)

try to keep up.

I would keep up if you had a logical point.. But you keep making up claims to back up your opinion.. of which I get confused..

Are you stating that Anderson is not that good in CF Def?

lastly.. You want Dave Roberts..:rolling:

fquaye14ten

02-27-2007, 10:08 AM

I would keep up if you had a logical point.. But you keep making up claims to back up your opinion.. of which I get confused..

Are you stating that Anderson is not that good in CF Def?

lastly.. You want Dave Roberts..:rolling:

look dude, are you honestly this slow?

Our OF problem was not Anderson in CF last year.

Our problem was Podsednik and Anderson's backup (Mackowiack)

This year we marginally upgrade Podsednik with Erstad (although Erstad will not play every day. He should. Podsednik is nearly worthless if he can't steal and I don't think he can steal due to recurring groin problems)

However, we fail to address Anderson's back up.

That's why I want Dave Roberts (and honestly I don't want him. I just see him as a better signing than Erstad). Not as an every day player, but as a capable centerfield back up.

God knows our pitching will be an adventure. I don't want to give up unearned runs because Erstad, Ozuna, or Mackowiack just flat out don't have the range to get to warning track balls.

I can't possibly dumb this down any more. Do with it what you will

Efilnikufesin

02-27-2007, 10:25 AM

look dude, are you honestly this slow?

Our OF problem was not Anderson in CF last year.

Our problem was Podsednik and Anderson's backup (Mackowiack)

This year we marginally upgrade Podsednik with Erstad (although Erstad will not play every day. He should. Podsednik is nearly worthless if he can't steal and I don't think he can steal due to recurring groin problems)

However, we fail to address Anderson's back up.

That's why I want Dave Roberts (and honestly I don't want him. I just see him as a better signing than Erstad). Not as an every day player, but as a capable centerfield back up.

God knows our pitching will be an adventure. I don't want to give up unearned runs because Erstad, Ozuna, or Mackowiack just flat out don't have the range to get to warning track balls.

I can't possibly dumb this down any more. Do with it what you will

So we are back to bitching about something without giving an valid answer to the problem.. And you are in Grad school.. :eek:

You mention Dave Roberts who inked a 3 year 15mil deal to be the starting CF for the Giants... But somehow we can ink him for less money, Less years and have him as a back-up.. HOW THE FUCK does KW do that?

Next you mention David Dellucci, Who inked a 3 year 11.5 mil to be the starting LF in Cleveland.. But again, KW magically convince him to take less money and years to play back-up for the White Sox..:jagoff:

Willy T.. He would have been moved to LF, since he could not handle CF in Houston..

Please get off your XBox and come back to reality.. KW did the best he could with what was out there..

Unless you want to try again on who we should have went after? Maybe caused their was a rumor about it.. We could have traded for Vernon Wells... and he could have been the back-up to Anderson? :thumbsup:

fquaye14ten

02-27-2007, 10:33 AM

So we are back to bitching about something without giving an valid answer to the problem.. And you are in Grad school.. :eek:

You mention Dave Roberts who inked a 3 year 15mil deal to be the starting CF for the Giants... But somehow we can ink him for less money, Less years and have him as a back-up.. HOW THE FUCK does KW do that?

Next you mention David Dellucci, Who inked a 3 year 11.5 mil to be the starting LF in Cleveland.. But again, KW magically convince him to take less money and years to play back-up for the White Sox..:jagoff:

Willy T.. He would have been moved to LF, since he could not handle CF in Houston..

Please get off your XBox and come back to reality.. KW did the best he could with what was out there..

Unless you want to try again on who we should have went after? Maybe caused their was a rumor about it.. We could have traded for Vernon Wells... and he could have been the back-up to Anderson? :thumbsup:

i'm going to keep this short and sweet b/c cira clued me in to naked pictures of patricia heaton on the web:

i'm merely pointing out a glaring weakness and pointing to potential replacements. the feasability may or may not be there, and i'm certainly not telling kenny how to do his job.

Whether kenny made good decisions or bad decisions in the offseason is irrelevant. the fact remains: our outfield is, at best, marginally improved. this is troubling, and all the personal attacks on me in the world aren't going to change that.

Efilnikufesin

02-27-2007, 10:41 AM

i'm going to keep this short and sweet b/c cira clued me in to naked pictures of patricia heaton on the web:
Maybe you should be looking up players contracts.. before you get into a heated debate about them..

i'm merely pointing out a glaring weakness and pointing to potential replacements. the feasability may or may not be there, and i'm certainly not telling kenny how to do his job.
Your bitching about a problem to gain attention.. Nothing more. in 7 pages not once have you made a valid point. You keep jumping for complaint to complaint to make it seem like you know what you are talking about.

Whether kenny made good decisions or bad decisions in the off season is irrelevant. the fact remains: our outfield is, at best, marginally improved. this is troubling, and all the personal attacks on me in the world aren't going to change that.
Sorry if you took them as personal attacks.. I just don't see what the issue is to be bitching about unless you have a solution to the problem.. You don't. Erstad was the best man to fill in for Pods and back-up Anderson.. The only other option was Bernie Williams.. But, I am sure you knew that already.

Myrtle

02-27-2007, 10:47 AM

:omg:

CaptainBallz

02-27-2007, 10:49 AM

Efilnikufesin

02-27-2007, 10:54 AM

Question:

Efil (can I just call you anthrax?), how would you grade the current outfield, assuming it's Pods/BA/Dye and Ozzie does the truffle shuffle with the CF starter, but also not asssuming that Pods will return to pre-allstar break '05 form?

I like my current name.. No one knows its me.. :whistle: :nana:

I give them at best a C.. Pre ST, with the option to go to B- if Anderson is on his game or D if he is not They are not the best but one we can win with. Even if Pods is not 100% he still is the best option to lead-off within our price range.

With that said, the only upgrade I wanted was Carl Crawford.. and since that is something that did not happen, I can't see what else KW could have done to make us better.

Myrtle

02-27-2007, 11:07 AM

I like my current name.. No one knows its me.. :whistle: :nana:

I give them at best a C.. Pre ST, with the option to go to B- if Anderson is on his game or D if he is not They are not the best but one we can win with. Even if Pods is not 100% he still is the best option to lead-off within our price range.

With that said, the only upgrade I wanted was Carl Crawford.. and since that is something that did not happen, I can't see what else KW could have done to make us better.

So... really, your opinions about the outfield are very similar to fquaye's opinions... but instead of offering a number of solutions that KW could have done this off season, you offer one and then say there is nothing we can do. Sounds like you're the one who's not really open to solutions here, not quaye. :thumbsup:

maurice

02-27-2007, 11:08 AM

I don't know how healthy Erstad will be. I suspect he'll be fine if Ozzie doesn't overplay him, but this is a legitimate concern. OTOH, you can't complain that Erstad is too old to play CF while suggesting Lofton, Finley, etc.

If you're really concerned about CF defense, the solution is to start Anderson 155 games and to start Terrerro the other 7. We all learned from the Mackowiak affair that Ozzie won't do this . . . hence the Erstad signing.

KW apparently laid down the law over Mack in CF after the season ended. Hopefully, he gives Ozzie less rope this season and keeps the mancrush factor to a minimum.

CaptainBallz

02-27-2007, 11:10 AM

I like my current name.. No one knows its me.. :whistle: :nana:

no fair

I give them at best a C.. Pre ST, with the option to go to B- if Anderson is on his game or D if he is not They are not the best but one we can win with.

ok.. those aren't very good grades overall, especially since BA's performance is key and it's still not positive where he stands.

I'm pretty sure that fquaye is merely pointing out what you seem to already think...

:whistle:

fquaye14ten

02-27-2007, 11:12 AM

I like my current name.. No one knows its me.. :whistle: :nana:

I give them at best a C.. Pre ST, with the option to go to B- if Anderson is on his game or D if he is not They are not the best but one we can win with. Even if Pods is not 100% he still is the best option to lead-off within our price range.

With that said, the only upgrade I wanted was Carl Crawford.. and since that is something that did not happen, I can't see what else KW could have done to make us better.
so you grade them a C but this isn't a concern?

It's not about me trying to gain attention, it's about us having a mediocre to lousy outfield, a problem last year and a problem this year. And beyond that knowing our coach doesn't make it a high priority to field a strong outfield

fquaye14ten

02-27-2007, 11:15 AM

I don't know how healthy Erstad will be. I suspect he'll be fine if Ozzie doesn't overplay him, but this is a legitimate concern. OTOH, you can't complain that Erstad is too old to play CF while suggesting Lofton, Finley, etc.

my concern isn't that Erstad is too old. My concern is whether his previous injuries will hold up. This was a concern to all the teams that didn't sign him, and the reason why he's not making 8.5 million this year (like he did last year). I'm not crazy about Finley or Lofton, nor do I think we should have signed them, but they offer some security that Erstad does not. This is also why I though cutting Frank loose in preference of Thome was a good move---you have better assurance of production from the latter than the former.

If you're really concerned about CF defense, the solution is to start Anderson 155 games and to start Terrerro the other 7. We all learned from the Mackowiak affair that Ozzie won't do this . . . hence the Erstad signing.

exactly what I think should be done. I like the Erstad signing theoretically. My problem is: are we asking him to play a position that he USED to be able to play before injury?

KW apparently laid down the law over Mack in CF after the season ended. Hopefully, he gives Ozzie less rope this season and keeps the mancrush factor to a minimum.
I agree we probably won't see Mack in CF. I worry we might see Erstad there too much (if he doesn't have the range) b/c Ozzie knows he used to play there and he likes Erstad's hustle.

Efilnikufesin

02-27-2007, 11:27 AM

no fair

ok.. those aren't very good grades overall, especially since BA's performance is key and it's still not positive where he stands.

I'm pretty sure that fquaye is merely pointing out what you seem to already think...

:whistle:
I think BA does fine..I don't see an issue with him at all.

A C is a great grade considering what was out their this past offseason, I just see Fquaye bitching about something that their was no way of fixing without going over budget and paying for below avg talent. All i wanted was him to explain what we could have done to make us better.. and he still has failed to do that...

How many people in 05 off season were saying our OF was great? It wasn't.. It was just good enough to get the job done, and that is all that is needed. If the pitching comes back around.. then we have nothing to worry about.

fquaye14ten

02-27-2007, 11:33 AM

I think BA does fine..I don't see an issue with him at all.

A C is a great grade considering what was out their this past offseason, I just see Fquaye bitching about something that their was no way of fixing without going over budget and paying for below avg talent. All i wanted was him to explain what we could have done to make us better.. and he still has failed to do that...

How many people in 05 off season were saying our OF was great? It wasn't.. It was just good enough to get the job done, and that is all that is needed. If the pitching comes back around.. then we have nothing to worry about.

This thread is about the outfield, what am I supposed to talk about?

All I've been saying is that I like an OF of Erstad./BA/ Dye if it's out there for 90% of the games.

I do not like any other OF combination this year, although Pods/BA/Dye for 90% of the games would be fine.

Do you really think Ozzie is going to let that happen? Therefore I have serious concerns about outfield performance this year.

fquaye14ten

02-27-2007, 11:36 AM

How many people in 05 off season were saying our OF was great? It wasn't.. It was just good enough to get the job done, and that is all that is needed. If the pitching comes back around.. then we have nothing to worry about.

Except that in 05 Pods played a passable left field. He seems to have lost that ability.

Meanwhile, though Rowand is not BA, he played a passable CF and Ozzie only spelled him every now and then, not on a regular basis like he did BA last year.

OF wasn't a concern in 05. It was a concern in 06, and I daresay may have cost us 3 or 4 games

Efilnikufesin

02-27-2007, 12:14 PM

Except that in 05 Pods played a passable left field. He seems to have lost that ability.

Meanwhile, though Rowand is not BA, he played a passable CF and Ozzie only spelled him every now and then, not on a regular basis like he did BA last year.

OF wasn't a concern in 05. It was a concern in 06, and I daresay may have cost us 3 or 4 games

Expect that starting 05.. Pods played 15 total games LF.. He played CF for the Brewers. Before coming to the White Sox.. But again I am sure you know that.

Blow that smoke up someone else's ass..

We went from in 04, Mags, Rowand and Lee.. To Dye, Rowand and Pods.. and it wasn't a concern.. Hell people were ready to jump off a bridge at the start of the season..

And you still have failed to tell me who would make us better that was available this offseason..Anytime you want to answer that I will listen.

fquaye14ten

02-27-2007, 12:15 PM

Expect that starting 05.. Pods played 15 total games LF.. He played CF for the Brewers. Before coming to the White Sox.. But again I am sure you know that.

Blow that smoke up someone else's ass.. what in the fuck are you talking about?

We went from in 04, Mags, Rowand and Lee.. To Dye, Rowand and Pods.. and it wasn't a concern.. Hell people were ready to jump off a bridge at the start of the season..

People were retarded. People thought Lee was a great defensive OF. Going from CF to LF was a concern of mine, but you certainly know that it's not nearly as difficult a transition as vice versa. And anyone who didn't think Dye would be a capable replacement for Maggs was crazy.

"blow that smoke up someone else's ass"? What's your problem dude. I'm not LBTigerfan...

fquaye14ten

02-27-2007, 12:17 PM

And you still have failed to tell me who would make us better that was available this offseason..Anytime you want to answer that I will listen.

oh my fucking christ, get over it. I'm concerned about our OF. That doesn't make me a GM.:rolleyes:

Efilnikufesin

02-27-2007, 12:45 PM

what in the fuck are you talking about?

People were retarded. People thought Lee was a great defensive OF. Going from CF to LF was a concern of mine, but you certainly know that it's not nearly as difficult a transition as vice versa. And anyone who didn't think Dye would be a capable replacement for Maggs was crazy.

"blow that smoke up someone else's ass"? What's your problem dude. I'm not LBTigerfan...

Sorry, but when you try and sell me that Pods was as you put it "passable" in LF.. yet he spent the majority of his MLB career prior to the White Sox in CF..That is blow smoke up someone ass.

So how can you make that claim without back up any facts? Though I have to say you been doing a great job of it for 8 pages.. just bitching about nothing to get attention.

Our OF is fine.. and this convo is over.. Unless you come up with something more than a bitch fest.